2017 Above the Law (ATL) Rankings Forum

[cron1834]

How is it possible that these are dumber than USNews? Like, they know USNews is dumb, and they produce something even worse.

[UVA2B]

How is it possible that these are dumber than USNews? Like, they know USNews is dumb, and they produce something even worse.

Because ordinal rankings on subjective stuff is bound to be ridiculous in varying ways. In fact, the very notion of creating a ranking system for law schools is pretty openly ridiculous, but the legal profession became enamored with it and never turned back. It makes for mundane discussions of the rankings and why those rankings must be disputed.

We do this all the time. Should anyone really care whether Columbia or Chicago is a better law school, or whether HYS is better than Columbia, or whether Lebron will ever surpass Michael Jordan as the greatest basketball player of all time? No, but damned if people aren't going to do it anyway.

[bmathers]

Dickinson is on fire in all of these rankings -- from NR to #27?? My guess is that they get near, or break into, the top 50 in the USNWR next year, once they factor in the past class's 90% employment %. Currently sitting at a USNWR #65 after a 21 point jump this year... based on "old" data that's not quite as good

But it's all relative. 90% employment is great, but when the 75 percentile income is less than 70k, there is nothing to be excited about. The median at top schools is now 180k.

But when a lot of the students go for free, many with a stipend, vs 6 figure debt and the biglaw lifestyle... 180 vs 70 looks a little different, especially if the 70 is in the central PA COL.

[guynourmin]

Dickinson is on fire in all of these rankings -- from NR to #27?? My guess is that they get near, or break into, the top 50 in the USNWR next year, once they factor in the past class's 90% employment %. Currently sitting at a USNWR #65 after a 21 point jump this year... based on "old" data that's not quite as good

But it's all relative. 90% employment is great, but when the 75 percentile income is less than 70k, there is nothing to be excited about. The median at top schools is now 180k.

Like you said, it's all relative. last year 40% of the school had full rides! full ride + 60k more or less stable job + central PA COL doesn't sound like a bad outcome to me. It might not be the outcome you or I pursue, but if the school is graduating a responsible amount of attorneys for the area with a reasonable debt load that is the exact kind of regional school we are all supportive of, right? Much better than Indiana talking about how they have international name recognition and you can work anywhere with an IU degree

[34iplaw]

Wholeheartedly agree with you Bourdin.

While I'm not defending these specific rankings, doesn't it make more sense to measure outputs rather than inputs when ranking law schools at least for the purpose of prospective students evaluating their options? I don't know about their methodology but measuring debt load versus average salary and employment seems to be far better than heavily relying on the caliber of student that enrolls.

Then again, it all depends on what views the purpose of the ranking, and a ranking based on outputs vs cost primarily would obviously be of limited use as people don't all receive the same scholarship offer or have the same COA.

[LurkerTurnedMember]

My school did so well! I just sent out addendums to my job applications informing potential employers of this news and attached the rankings. This is great. I'm hoping it'll improve my chances.

Edit: the above is a joke. I'm not even applying anywhere.

[bmathers]

I'm just hoping that I can leverage this drop by Yale to be offered admission. They gotta be getting a bit desperate

[rpupkin]

How is it possible that these are dumber than USNews? Like, they know USNews is dumb, and they produce something even worse.

Disagree. Based on the current trajectory, Penn State will pass up U Penn next year, which would make these the greatest law-school rankings in human history.

[BigZuck]

How is it possible that these are dumber than USNews? Like, they know USNews is dumb, and they produce something even worse.

Disagree. Based on the current trajectory, Penn State will pass up U Penn next year, which would make these the greatest law-school rankings in human history.

Wait those are different schools?

[rpupkin]

How is it possible that these are dumber than USNews? Like, they know USNews is dumb, and they produce something even worse.

Disagree. Based on the current trajectory, Penn State will pass up U Penn next year, which would make these the greatest law-school rankings in human history.

Wait those are different schools?

Exactly. That's the idea.