Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time Forum
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Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
I am lucky enough to have a job lined up. However, my employer wants me to take the bar exam in a neighboring state this upcoming February, and I will be working full time while preparing for the exam. Any time management/study tips will be greatly appreciated.
- LAWYER2
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Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
ditch digger wrote:I am lucky enough to have a job lined up. However, my employer wants me to take the bar exam in a neighboring state this upcoming February, and I will be working full time while preparing for the exam. Any time management/study tips will be greatly appreciated.
I would be sure to study at work especially since it's for your employers benefit. I studied for the July exam while working. I listened to the lectures and completed online M/C questions while at work. Read and reviewed notes/flash-cards while at home. Rinse and repeat.
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Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
Was your employer okay with you doing this? I did consider studying while at work, but then I really need to keep my billables up during my first year to show that I'm a profitable addition to the firm.LAWYER2 wrote:ditch digger wrote:I am lucky enough to have a job lined up. However, my employer wants me to take the bar exam in a neighboring state this upcoming February, and I will be working full time while preparing for the exam. Any time management/study tips will be greatly appreciated.
I would be sure to study at work especially since it's for your employers benefit. I studied for the July exam while working. I listened to the lectures and completed online M/C questions while at work. Read and reviewed notes/flash-cards while at home. Rinse and repeat.
- LAWYER2
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Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
Yes, however I wasn't responsible for billing clients. In your case, you might want to discuss with your employer. Maybe there's a client who can be billed at a feasible rate for getting licensed in another state to work on their matters. LoL, I've seen some pretty creative billing circumstances in my day.
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Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
Would anyone like to share their experience studying while working full-time when an employer was not paying them to study? I have about a 50 hour per week job, and I'm confronting the possibility of retaking in February, but I don't know if I should just wait until after my year-long position ends, take three months to study, and then apply for permanent work after I take the first available bar exam. I can't believe people can pass the CA bar only studying on nights and weekends.
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Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
I took the February 2014 California bar exam, and studied for it while working full time. I also was unable to study while at work, but I had a really flexible 9-4:30pm work schedule. I took a few days off for holidays and other random days when I was able to. But the most important thing for me was the 1.5 weeks I took off leading up to the exam. That was really crucial.
My study schedule was nights, weekends, and any days off that I had. I used Barpassers, and started studying late December. Barpassers has maybe 7 or 8 written and graded assignments throughout the course, so I did all of those, except the PT one. I tried to follow their PM schedule as best as I could, but really didn't get in much of the practicing until those 2 weeks leading up to the test. So most nights and weekends consisted of watching the online video lectures. I tried to do practice MBEs, and I did get a lot in, but I was too burnt out to really get through as many as the scheduled called for. Also, I didn't do a single PT practice. I only watched the lecture and reviewed some of the answer types.
Again, the 1.5 weeks leading up to the test, I feel, were the most crucial. I took time off, so I had full days, and I had finished all of the lectures. Though the schedule didn't call for this, I had to schedule my study plan in this manner because I had fallen behind. That schedule during the 1.5 weeks consisted of spending one full day for each MBE subject, doing about 300 MBEs per subject. The MBEs were less daunting at the time because Barpassers has online software to practice MBEs.
Once those six days were done, I moved on to the essays. I didn't write any full essays except for the assignments. Instead, I focused on the first 15 min. of essay writing---the first read, the re-read, and outline. My outlines were fairly detailed, including the statements of law and the elements that needed discussion. I did this during the remaining days for every essay provided for every subject, except remedies (b/c remedies wasn't supposed to be on the Feb. 2014 exam... but it was!). I might've sprinkled in some MBEs during this time, but not much.
I stopped studying around noon on the Monday before the test. I wanted and tried to study, but was too exhausted. The AM consisted of some review of my outlines, model answers, and MBEs that I had already done. The PM was vegetation. I feel that the importance of the 1.5 weeks was to develop muscle memory for the MBEs and essays. My MBE overall scores only hovered around 60%, and I definitely wasn't getting 70s on my graded assignments (even though I did them open book). My goal, which I truly believe is a good one, was to make my response to MBEs and essays as reflexive as possible. By test time, I was on cruise control. I don't think I was really thinking much during the essays; everything just kind of reflexively spewed out.
If you can't take some time off leading up to the test, just start earlier. Working full time and studying is tough, but definitely doable. Turn your responses into reflexes more than intellectual musings.
Hope that helps!
My study schedule was nights, weekends, and any days off that I had. I used Barpassers, and started studying late December. Barpassers has maybe 7 or 8 written and graded assignments throughout the course, so I did all of those, except the PT one. I tried to follow their PM schedule as best as I could, but really didn't get in much of the practicing until those 2 weeks leading up to the test. So most nights and weekends consisted of watching the online video lectures. I tried to do practice MBEs, and I did get a lot in, but I was too burnt out to really get through as many as the scheduled called for. Also, I didn't do a single PT practice. I only watched the lecture and reviewed some of the answer types.
Again, the 1.5 weeks leading up to the test, I feel, were the most crucial. I took time off, so I had full days, and I had finished all of the lectures. Though the schedule didn't call for this, I had to schedule my study plan in this manner because I had fallen behind. That schedule during the 1.5 weeks consisted of spending one full day for each MBE subject, doing about 300 MBEs per subject. The MBEs were less daunting at the time because Barpassers has online software to practice MBEs.
Once those six days were done, I moved on to the essays. I didn't write any full essays except for the assignments. Instead, I focused on the first 15 min. of essay writing---the first read, the re-read, and outline. My outlines were fairly detailed, including the statements of law and the elements that needed discussion. I did this during the remaining days for every essay provided for every subject, except remedies (b/c remedies wasn't supposed to be on the Feb. 2014 exam... but it was!). I might've sprinkled in some MBEs during this time, but not much.
I stopped studying around noon on the Monday before the test. I wanted and tried to study, but was too exhausted. The AM consisted of some review of my outlines, model answers, and MBEs that I had already done. The PM was vegetation. I feel that the importance of the 1.5 weeks was to develop muscle memory for the MBEs and essays. My MBE overall scores only hovered around 60%, and I definitely wasn't getting 70s on my graded assignments (even though I did them open book). My goal, which I truly believe is a good one, was to make my response to MBEs and essays as reflexive as possible. By test time, I was on cruise control. I don't think I was really thinking much during the essays; everything just kind of reflexively spewed out.
If you can't take some time off leading up to the test, just start earlier. Working full time and studying is tough, but definitely doable. Turn your responses into reflexes more than intellectual musings.
Hope that helps!
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Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
That is phenomenally helpful, thank you very much. I'm assuming you passed of course, haha. But that absolutely gives me more hope that I can work this out. I appreciate it.
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Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
No problem! And good luck!
A couple bits of advice that I got through Barpassers, reading this forum, and reading other websites is to use every fact in the essays. I kept repeating that to myself on test day.
Also, practice, practice, practice. Mainly, the essays and MBEs. Writing full essays, I thought, was a waste of time that my work schedule didn't permit. If I wasn't working, maybe I would've done more fully written essays, but really, the first 15 min. is make or break with essays. So practicing that first 15 min.---identifying the law and elements, and the relevant facts---then comparing and reviewing your outline to the model answer is necessary. For MBEs, it really is quantity + review. That formula worked really well. I saved a lot of time because I did very little PT prep. The way I approached PTs was to just follow the directions, cite every case given, and "use the facts."
Perfection is not necessary, but aim high. I tried to produce perfect outlines while studying essays especially. For the February 2014 test, I muddled my way through the remedies question because I didn't study remedies, and I missed some big issues in the con law question (i.e., forgot to discuss whether the guy's kooky religion is protected, and just brain farted on discussing free exercise even though I remembered to discuss establishment). Despite that, yes, I passed haha. I think it's probably because by aiming high, the points from my other answers made up for what I missed.
Finally, plan your time to give yourself a cushion. In other words, try to do your essays in 55 min. and leave yourself 5-10 min. after your PTs. I don't think I planned on doing it this way, but my adrenaline just made me faster. I'm glad it did because I finished early for every section---essays, MBEs, and PTs. That extra time allowed me to tweak my answers, format everything (underline, bold, use roman numerals, etc.), and spell check.
Sorry for the length of that unsolicited advice! If you have any questions, I'd be more than happy to answer them.
A couple bits of advice that I got through Barpassers, reading this forum, and reading other websites is to use every fact in the essays. I kept repeating that to myself on test day.
Also, practice, practice, practice. Mainly, the essays and MBEs. Writing full essays, I thought, was a waste of time that my work schedule didn't permit. If I wasn't working, maybe I would've done more fully written essays, but really, the first 15 min. is make or break with essays. So practicing that first 15 min.---identifying the law and elements, and the relevant facts---then comparing and reviewing your outline to the model answer is necessary. For MBEs, it really is quantity + review. That formula worked really well. I saved a lot of time because I did very little PT prep. The way I approached PTs was to just follow the directions, cite every case given, and "use the facts."
Perfection is not necessary, but aim high. I tried to produce perfect outlines while studying essays especially. For the February 2014 test, I muddled my way through the remedies question because I didn't study remedies, and I missed some big issues in the con law question (i.e., forgot to discuss whether the guy's kooky religion is protected, and just brain farted on discussing free exercise even though I remembered to discuss establishment). Despite that, yes, I passed haha. I think it's probably because by aiming high, the points from my other answers made up for what I missed.
Finally, plan your time to give yourself a cushion. In other words, try to do your essays in 55 min. and leave yourself 5-10 min. after your PTs. I don't think I planned on doing it this way, but my adrenaline just made me faster. I'm glad it did because I finished early for every section---essays, MBEs, and PTs. That extra time allowed me to tweak my answers, format everything (underline, bold, use roman numerals, etc.), and spell check.
Sorry for the length of that unsolicited advice! If you have any questions, I'd be more than happy to answer them.
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Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
jonasquinn wrote:No problem! And good luck!
A couple bits of advice that I got through Barpassers, reading this forum, and reading other websites is to use every fact in the essays. I kept repeating that to myself on test day.
Also, practice, practice, practice. Mainly, the essays and MBEs. Writing full essays, I thought, was a waste of time that my work schedule didn't permit. If I wasn't working, maybe I would've done more fully written essays, but really, the first 15 min. is make or break with essays. So practicing that first 15 min.---identifying the law and elements, and the relevant facts---then comparing and reviewing your outline to the model answer is necessary. For MBEs, it really is quantity + review. That formula worked really well. I saved a lot of time because I did very little PT prep. The way I approached PTs was to just follow the directions, cite every case given, and "use the facts."
Perfection is not necessary, but aim high. I tried to produce perfect outlines while studying essays especially. For the February 2014 test, I muddled my way through the remedies question because I didn't study remedies, and I missed some big issues in the con law question (i.e., forgot to discuss whether the guy's kooky religion is protected, and just brain farted on discussing free exercise even though I remembered to discuss establishment). Despite that, yes, I passed haha. I think it's probably because by aiming high, the points from my other answers made up for what I missed.
Finally, plan your time to give yourself a cushion. In other words, try to do your essays in 55 min. and leave yourself 5-10 min. after your PTs. I don't think I planned on doing it this way, but my adrenaline just made me faster. I'm glad it did because I finished early for every section---essays, MBEs, and PTs. That extra time allowed me to tweak my answers, format everything (underline, bold, use roman numerals, etc.), and spell check.
Sorry for the length of that unsolicited advice! If you have any questions, I'd be more than happy to answer them.
Thank you for your post. You have absolutely no idea the peace of mind you have given me. Also, I apologize for the numerous questions that I have made below.
I am taking the Feb 2015 exam. I will also be working full-time while studying and I have also signed up with barpassers, so reading your post was very comforting to me. My work schedule will be from 715am to 330pm during the studying period and I will be using my two-week vacation time to take the week prior to the exam off and the week of the exam.
I was wondering if you could give me a little more insight into your day to day schedule. From late December up until 1.5 weeks before the exam you said that you watched the lectures after work and tried to do MBEs. Were you able to finish listening to the lecture the same day you started it? Did you create any separate outlines from the video lectures or just write on the chart book? Also, at any point did you just study the black letter law from either the big outlines they send or from the video lectures? and lastly, what did you do on the weekends?
Again, sorry for so many questions but I am in that panic/frenzy stage where I do not even know how I will have time for all of it.
Thanks!
- scrowell
- Posts: 411
- Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:04 pm
Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
I just took and passed the CA bar while working FT. This was the first bar exam I took. Here's what I did:
-signed up for Kaplan
-watched approximately 1/2 of a lecture per day and filled in outlines as I watched
-did like 10-20 MBE questions/week
-outlined every subject (MBE and CA) to memorize for the essays
-did not write out any essays or PTs
Probably studied for an hour or 2 each evening after work, and 2-3 hours/day on the weekends.
Started this program at the end of May up until July exam. Missed a few days for my bday and my grandfather's funeral.
More than happy to answer any specific questions. Feel free to PM me.
-signed up for Kaplan
-watched approximately 1/2 of a lecture per day and filled in outlines as I watched
-did like 10-20 MBE questions/week
-outlined every subject (MBE and CA) to memorize for the essays
-did not write out any essays or PTs
Probably studied for an hour or 2 each evening after work, and 2-3 hours/day on the weekends.
Started this program at the end of May up until July exam. Missed a few days for my bday and my grandfather's funeral.
More than happy to answer any specific questions. Feel free to PM me.
-
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:41 pm
Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
No need to apologize! I'm more than happy to help out.mrbakinsoda wrote:jonasquinn wrote:No problem! And good luck!
A couple bits of advice that I got through Barpassers, reading this forum, and reading other websites is to use every fact in the essays. I kept repeating that to myself on test day.
Also, practice, practice, practice. Mainly, the essays and MBEs. Writing full essays, I thought, was a waste of time that my work schedule didn't permit. If I wasn't working, maybe I would've done more fully written essays, but really, the first 15 min. is make or break with essays. So practicing that first 15 min.---identifying the law and elements, and the relevant facts---then comparing and reviewing your outline to the model answer is necessary. For MBEs, it really is quantity + review. That formula worked really well. I saved a lot of time because I did very little PT prep. The way I approached PTs was to just follow the directions, cite every case given, and "use the facts."
Perfection is not necessary, but aim high. I tried to produce perfect outlines while studying essays especially. For the February 2014 test, I muddled my way through the remedies question because I didn't study remedies, and I missed some big issues in the con law question (i.e., forgot to discuss whether the guy's kooky religion is protected, and just brain farted on discussing free exercise even though I remembered to discuss establishment). Despite that, yes, I passed haha. I think it's probably because by aiming high, the points from my other answers made up for what I missed.
Finally, plan your time to give yourself a cushion. In other words, try to do your essays in 55 min. and leave yourself 5-10 min. after your PTs. I don't think I planned on doing it this way, but my adrenaline just made me faster. I'm glad it did because I finished early for every section---essays, MBEs, and PTs. That extra time allowed me to tweak my answers, format everything (underline, bold, use roman numerals, etc.), and spell check.
Sorry for the length of that unsolicited advice! If you have any questions, I'd be more than happy to answer them.
Thank you for your post. You have absolutely no idea the peace of mind you have given me. Also, I apologize for the numerous questions that I have made below.
I am taking the Feb 2015 exam. I will also be working full-time while studying and I have also signed up with barpassers, so reading your post was very comforting to me. My work schedule will be from 715am to 330pm during the studying period and I will be using my two-week vacation time to take the week prior to the exam off and the week of the exam.
I was wondering if you could give me a little more insight into your day to day schedule. From late December up until 1.5 weeks before the exam you said that you watched the lectures after work and tried to do MBEs. Were you able to finish listening to the lecture the same day you started it? Did you create any separate outlines from the video lectures or just write on the chart book? Also, at any point did you just study the black letter law from either the big outlines they send or from the video lectures? and lastly, what did you do on the weekends?
Again, sorry for so many questions but I am in that panic/frenzy stage where I do not even know how I will have time for all of it.
Thanks!
1. Video Lectures
So from late December until 1.5 weeks before the exam started, I successfully watched every video lecture, except the second half of the PT one. During that time period, it really felt like I was only watching lectures. For the most part, I was able to get through the assigned lectures according to Barpassers' schedule. Sometimes I'd get through 2 hours and make up for the last 3rd hour the next day, but I generally was good about keeping pace with the schedule. I did do all of the written assignments (again except the PT), particularly because they were usually assigned in the schedule in lieu of video lectures.
2. Outlines / Chart Book
I did not do any separate outlines. I purchased flashcards, but never used them. I even made digital flashcards from when I studied for a previous exam, but didn't use those either. When I took the exam last Feb, it had actually been several years after I last took the exam.
I found taking notes in the chart book to be adequate. I personally really liked the flow-chart organization. It meshed well with my more technical approach to things.
After having taken the Barpassers course, I felt that the video lectures were there to provide general knowledge and background for learning the law. But where you really learned the black letter law was during all the practice, which for me (due to poor planning) was mainly limited to the two weeks leading up to the exam. I wouldn't recommend doing it the way I did. I was really stressed out and was on the brink of an anxiety attack.
3. Black Letter Law
As I touched on above, I didn't do any hardcore memorizing throughout the course. I followed Barpassers' recommendation to get through the lectures first. I did review the charts w/ my notes, but mainly when I was doing practice questions. (I didn't score over 65 on any of my graded assignments even when I did them open notes.)
Personally, I felt the best learning occurred during practice---both the MBEs and essays. After doing a couple thousand MBEs and almost all of the essays (didn't get through remedies), my through process for answering questions was nearly automatic.
I did troll some websites for predictions though. Based on predictions, I added some black letter law learning. For example, some dude on Youtube said water rights was ripe for making an appearance, so I went over water rights.
In answering questions on actual exam day, I really felt that referring to past practice questions to formulate answers was what really saved me. I cannot emphasize the importance of practicing MBEs and essays to learn the law.
(For the record, when I say that I practiced essays, I only did detailed outlines w/ references to relevant facts. I didn't actually write out the essays completely; I found that to be a waste of time.)
4. Weekends
The usual weekend assignment was a block of videos in the morning and a block in the afternoon. I pretty much followed the schedule. Then if I had the energy, I tried to squeeze in practice and review (though usually unsuccessfully).
----------
It's still early to work yourself into a panic. I suppose it could be good to get all the jitters out now, but working full time and studying for the bar is definitely doable. That's coming for a 3rd timer. Just methodically go through the schedule and trust Barpassers' plan. That said, augment the plan in a manner that fits your learning style, too.
Also, returning to something that most people do that I didn't was PT practice. I never really did too poorly with PTs. I actually liked them because everything you need to answer the question is given to you, and they give you instructions on exactly how to do it. I've always seen PTs as an exercise in following instructions more than testing legal analysis. (That ends my aside.)
If you have any additional questions, feel absolutely free to ask. I'll do my best to answer them.
Good luck!
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Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
I worked full-time and took the Feb. 2014 Cal Bar and passed on the first try. I was already licensed in another state. Here is what I did.
Wake up SUPER early to study at least 2-3 hours before going to work. (woke up at 3:30am and studied until 7ish, then headed to work). I did this because I had more brain power in the morning--when I came home, I was usually poofed and didn't want to study. I devoted the nights to brisk reviewing of wrong answers and stuff. Do what works for you.
At work, I listened to lectures on my smartphone. I believe barbri allows you to download to your phone so you don't have to worry about burning data. I did this because I noticed others listening to music and doing work.
Same goes when going to gym--listened to lectures. I made it a routine to at least go to the gym 3 times a week. This is very crucial--stay in shape or you'll get burnt out.
Lunch time: I tried to fit in doing essays or reviewing MBE questions during my 1 hour lunch.
Move On: if antyhing, you need to MOVE ON if you don't understand a theory fully. For example, I didn't understand many of the principles in Community Property (having not graduatted from a Cali school). Unfortunately, it showed up. What helped is this next tip:
Shortcuts: You need to learn various shortcuts. for example, in Community property, most barprep recommend to memorize a huge blurb paragraph to throw down once you see a CP essay. Thankfully, I memorized that and threw it down. That gave me the structure to power through the damn thing. MBE has tons of shortcuts.
Wake up SUPER early to study at least 2-3 hours before going to work. (woke up at 3:30am and studied until 7ish, then headed to work). I did this because I had more brain power in the morning--when I came home, I was usually poofed and didn't want to study. I devoted the nights to brisk reviewing of wrong answers and stuff. Do what works for you.
At work, I listened to lectures on my smartphone. I believe barbri allows you to download to your phone so you don't have to worry about burning data. I did this because I noticed others listening to music and doing work.
Same goes when going to gym--listened to lectures. I made it a routine to at least go to the gym 3 times a week. This is very crucial--stay in shape or you'll get burnt out.
Lunch time: I tried to fit in doing essays or reviewing MBE questions during my 1 hour lunch.
Move On: if antyhing, you need to MOVE ON if you don't understand a theory fully. For example, I didn't understand many of the principles in Community Property (having not graduatted from a Cali school). Unfortunately, it showed up. What helped is this next tip:
Shortcuts: You need to learn various shortcuts. for example, in Community property, most barprep recommend to memorize a huge blurb paragraph to throw down once you see a CP essay. Thankfully, I memorized that and threw it down. That gave me the structure to power through the damn thing. MBE has tons of shortcuts.
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Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
For those who did Barbri the first time around, do you find that re-watching the lectures is worth the time investment? FWIW, I'm not taking the MBE in February.
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- Ron Don Volante
- Posts: 899
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Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
scrowell wrote:I just took and passed the CA bar while working FT. This was the first bar exam I took. Here's what I did:
-signed up for Kaplan
-watched approximately 1/2 of a lecture per day and filled in outlines as I watched
-did like 10-20 MBE questions/week
-outlined every subject (MBE and CA) to memorize for the essays
-did not write out any essays or PTs
Probably studied for an hour or 2 each evening after work, and 2-3 hours/day on the weekends.
Started this program at the end of May up until July exam. Missed a few days for my bday and my grandfather's funeral.
More than happy to answer any specific questions. Feel free to PM me.
- scrowell
- Posts: 411
- Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:04 pm
Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
Waiting to hear from you bro!Ron Don Volante wrote:scrowell wrote:I just took and passed the CA bar while working FT. This was the first bar exam I took. Here's what I did:
-signed up for Kaplan
-watched approximately 1/2 of a lecture per day and filled in outlines as I watched
-did like 10-20 MBE questions/week
-outlined every subject (MBE and CA) to memorize for the essays
-did not write out any essays or PTs
Probably studied for an hour or 2 each evening after work, and 2-3 hours/day on the weekends.
Started this program at the end of May up until July exam. Missed a few days for my bday and my grandfather's funeral.
More than happy to answer any specific questions. Feel free to PM me.
-
- Posts: 1902
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:41 pm
Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
Bitch please.scrowell wrote:I just took and passed the CA bar while working FT. This was the first bar exam I took. Here's what I did:
-signed up for Kaplan
-watched approximately 1/2 of a lecture per day and filled in outlines as I watched
-did like 10-20 MBE questions/week
-outlined every subject (MBE and CA) to memorize for the essays
-did not write out any essays or PTs
Probably studied for an hour or 2 each evening after work, and 2-3 hours/day on the weekends.
Started this program at the end of May up until July exam. Missed a few days for my bday and my grandfather's funeral.
More than happy to answer any specific questions. Feel free to PM me.
- scrowell
- Posts: 411
- Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:04 pm
Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
Sorry?sparty99 wrote:Bitch please.scrowell wrote:I just took and passed the CA bar while working FT. This was the first bar exam I took. Here's what I did:
-signed up for Kaplan
-watched approximately 1/2 of a lecture per day and filled in outlines as I watched
-did like 10-20 MBE questions/week
-outlined every subject (MBE and CA) to memorize for the essays
-did not write out any essays or PTs
Probably studied for an hour or 2 each evening after work, and 2-3 hours/day on the weekends.
Started this program at the end of May up until July exam. Missed a few days for my bday and my grandfather's funeral.
More than happy to answer any specific questions. Feel free to PM me.
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Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
I thought I'd chime in here with some of my thoughts on working full time and studying for the bar exam, in hope that they might benefit others who find themselves facing the same challenge. I took Feb. '15 IL bar exam and passed. I took an passed a different bar exam several years ago.
First, it is possible. It’s not pleasant, but it’s certainly not crazy. I wouldn't say that I'm any more disciplined than any other sucker who went to law school, and I had a number of work and family commitments that prevented me from being monastic about the process. My entire preparation was 8 1/2 weeks, including the time that it took to actually take the test.
Second, if you make a schedule and stick to it like a demon, you will get the job done.
Here is what worked for me:
1. Took Themis.
I'm no shill, but Themis allowed me to watch lectures and do problem sets on my laptop. It was half the price of BARBRI. I took BARBRI in 2012 to pass Wisconsin but I nearly failed. I passed by just a handful of points. In my opinion, Themis is better. The lectures are broken up into 20 minute chunks, so it's always more tempting to think, "well, I'll just watch one more before bedtime."
2. Figure out where your available time is, and maximize your studying in that time slot.
I worked a conventional job, which meant that from 7:45 a.m. to 6 p.m., I was either in transit or at my job. Living in Chicago, I took advantage of the CTA commute and used that time to review outlines. Over and over and over. The entire 8 weeks. I found that I could review a whole subject every two days just by reading the outlines on the train and at lunch. Other things have just got to go: surfing the internet, watching sports, some exercising, drinking, and late nights out.
Taking the February bar exam, I began studying two days after Christmas. I had a block of days off for the holidays, so I used this time to get a good start out of the blocks. I really hit the subjects hard, knowing that I’d never have this much time to study all at once again.
After New Years, the routine that I would maintain until late February began in earnest. In the morning on the way to work, I read outlines. At lunch, I read outlines. From 6:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m., I studied. Hard. No phone, no internet (other than Themis), no wife, no nothing. When the routine got tough, I began to study at coffee shops on the way home from work until they closed.
From about 9:00 to 10:00, I ate dinner with my wife and tried to talk about things other than the bar exam. Then I would “plug back in,” as I began to call it, until 11:30. A few times I went past 11:30 but I learned that studying too late made me anxious and I had difficulty sleeping. So 11:30 was a pretty firm cut-off time for me.
Weekends, I tried to start working by 9 a.m. and keep working until 7 p.m., with a break for lunch and little breaks for exercise or chores to give my mind a rest. That left me plenty of time for socialization on Friday or Saturday night, although I tried to keep a lid on the fun, lest a hangover invade the next day's studying.
I focused on MBE subjects. Savvy as Themis is, my gamble was that they have to cover their asses a little bit with the subjects that are not tested often. I devoted more time than they suggested to the MBE subjects, and substantially less time to non-MBE essay topics. I gave myself only two full days for each heavily tested non-MBE topic and only one half day for the minimally-tested non-MBE topics (Commercial Paper, Family Law, etc.). Shifting my own time priorities within the topics gave me the feeling of additional control over my
3. What constitutes studying?
The first time I took the bar, I underestimated the importance of knowing the substantive law. Big picture, broad knowledge won't help you. You need to learn lots and lots and lots of minutiae. And then, once you learn the minutiae, you need to remember them and apply them in practice. I divided my study time between learning substantive law and MBE problems. Essay writing is a strength, and so I had to put my effort where I stood to gain the most improvement per unit of time investment. I went over outlines on the train, at lunch (took 30 – 45 minutes each day), and until my 9 p.m. break. From 10 – 11:30 I did problems, and I did them in interactive mode. I recommend this highly. It is much easier to learn when you are getting immediate feedback on the problems. When I missed problems, it was generally for three reasons: 1) didn’t know law, 2) misread question, 3) knew law but fact pattern faked me out. Over time, I had fewer and fewer #2 and #3 misses. The MBE is a terrible, awful monster, made worse by the fact that sometimes you are put in the position of assessing facts as opposed to law (e.g., if these facts could be considered X, then the answer is “A,” whereas if the same facts are considered Y, the answer is “D.”) I was never able to totally eliminate those dilemmas while working the problem sets, but improved.
4. Kicking for home
With about three weeks to go, I alternately felt panicked, resigned, and optimistic about the bar exam. I’d only made it through 58% of Themis’s progress tracker, had not taken any timed tests, but I had to trust that my own maximization of strengths and timing calculations were accurate. I tried to minimize time spent worrying or attempting to locate bar passage rates from prior years. All of that worrying time is better spent doing problem sets or learning substantive law. With two weeks to go, I made a checklist. I’d go over the outline for each subject one more time, then do one last problem set for each MBE topic, plus spend 2 to 3 hours familiarizing myself with the MPT. With one week to go, I stopped doing problems. My % correct on Themis questions was between 65 and 72%, which seemed like it was in the ballpark. It was challenging to focus in the final week because I was anxious about the test, and also excited about freedom from 8 weeks of drudgery.
5. The exam days
If you're a test person, you don't need to waste your time reading this section. This stuff is test preparation canon law: get sleep, eat well, don’t try to teach yourself anything new. I brought my lunch both days, and allowed myself to look at outlines that I’d made, but didn’t look at any questions and didn’t make conversation about the exam with any of my fellow examinees. It’s likely that you will feel better after Day 1 (essays) than Day 2 (MBE). After the MBE, I felt pretty sour. It’s a hard test, and even if you know the law, sometimes it’s difficult to determine which choice is correct. I felt frustrated that so much of my knowledge hadn’t felt useful to me during the test. After the exam, I went directly to a different kind of Illinois bar. This is a highly recommended strategy. The next morning, I felt a little better about it. A week later, I began to feel confident, and by the time they were releasing scores, I was certain I passed...and I was right.
So, take heart. Passing the bar while working full time is very doable if you must do it, though preparation requires relentless hard work and is generally unpleasant. Hopefully someone finds this helpful, and good luck to everybody.
First, it is possible. It’s not pleasant, but it’s certainly not crazy. I wouldn't say that I'm any more disciplined than any other sucker who went to law school, and I had a number of work and family commitments that prevented me from being monastic about the process. My entire preparation was 8 1/2 weeks, including the time that it took to actually take the test.
Second, if you make a schedule and stick to it like a demon, you will get the job done.
Here is what worked for me:
1. Took Themis.
I'm no shill, but Themis allowed me to watch lectures and do problem sets on my laptop. It was half the price of BARBRI. I took BARBRI in 2012 to pass Wisconsin but I nearly failed. I passed by just a handful of points. In my opinion, Themis is better. The lectures are broken up into 20 minute chunks, so it's always more tempting to think, "well, I'll just watch one more before bedtime."
2. Figure out where your available time is, and maximize your studying in that time slot.
I worked a conventional job, which meant that from 7:45 a.m. to 6 p.m., I was either in transit or at my job. Living in Chicago, I took advantage of the CTA commute and used that time to review outlines. Over and over and over. The entire 8 weeks. I found that I could review a whole subject every two days just by reading the outlines on the train and at lunch. Other things have just got to go: surfing the internet, watching sports, some exercising, drinking, and late nights out.
Taking the February bar exam, I began studying two days after Christmas. I had a block of days off for the holidays, so I used this time to get a good start out of the blocks. I really hit the subjects hard, knowing that I’d never have this much time to study all at once again.
After New Years, the routine that I would maintain until late February began in earnest. In the morning on the way to work, I read outlines. At lunch, I read outlines. From 6:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m., I studied. Hard. No phone, no internet (other than Themis), no wife, no nothing. When the routine got tough, I began to study at coffee shops on the way home from work until they closed.
From about 9:00 to 10:00, I ate dinner with my wife and tried to talk about things other than the bar exam. Then I would “plug back in,” as I began to call it, until 11:30. A few times I went past 11:30 but I learned that studying too late made me anxious and I had difficulty sleeping. So 11:30 was a pretty firm cut-off time for me.
Weekends, I tried to start working by 9 a.m. and keep working until 7 p.m., with a break for lunch and little breaks for exercise or chores to give my mind a rest. That left me plenty of time for socialization on Friday or Saturday night, although I tried to keep a lid on the fun, lest a hangover invade the next day's studying.
I focused on MBE subjects. Savvy as Themis is, my gamble was that they have to cover their asses a little bit with the subjects that are not tested often. I devoted more time than they suggested to the MBE subjects, and substantially less time to non-MBE essay topics. I gave myself only two full days for each heavily tested non-MBE topic and only one half day for the minimally-tested non-MBE topics (Commercial Paper, Family Law, etc.). Shifting my own time priorities within the topics gave me the feeling of additional control over my
3. What constitutes studying?
The first time I took the bar, I underestimated the importance of knowing the substantive law. Big picture, broad knowledge won't help you. You need to learn lots and lots and lots of minutiae. And then, once you learn the minutiae, you need to remember them and apply them in practice. I divided my study time between learning substantive law and MBE problems. Essay writing is a strength, and so I had to put my effort where I stood to gain the most improvement per unit of time investment. I went over outlines on the train, at lunch (took 30 – 45 minutes each day), and until my 9 p.m. break. From 10 – 11:30 I did problems, and I did them in interactive mode. I recommend this highly. It is much easier to learn when you are getting immediate feedback on the problems. When I missed problems, it was generally for three reasons: 1) didn’t know law, 2) misread question, 3) knew law but fact pattern faked me out. Over time, I had fewer and fewer #2 and #3 misses. The MBE is a terrible, awful monster, made worse by the fact that sometimes you are put in the position of assessing facts as opposed to law (e.g., if these facts could be considered X, then the answer is “A,” whereas if the same facts are considered Y, the answer is “D.”) I was never able to totally eliminate those dilemmas while working the problem sets, but improved.
4. Kicking for home
With about three weeks to go, I alternately felt panicked, resigned, and optimistic about the bar exam. I’d only made it through 58% of Themis’s progress tracker, had not taken any timed tests, but I had to trust that my own maximization of strengths and timing calculations were accurate. I tried to minimize time spent worrying or attempting to locate bar passage rates from prior years. All of that worrying time is better spent doing problem sets or learning substantive law. With two weeks to go, I made a checklist. I’d go over the outline for each subject one more time, then do one last problem set for each MBE topic, plus spend 2 to 3 hours familiarizing myself with the MPT. With one week to go, I stopped doing problems. My % correct on Themis questions was between 65 and 72%, which seemed like it was in the ballpark. It was challenging to focus in the final week because I was anxious about the test, and also excited about freedom from 8 weeks of drudgery.
5. The exam days
If you're a test person, you don't need to waste your time reading this section. This stuff is test preparation canon law: get sleep, eat well, don’t try to teach yourself anything new. I brought my lunch both days, and allowed myself to look at outlines that I’d made, but didn’t look at any questions and didn’t make conversation about the exam with any of my fellow examinees. It’s likely that you will feel better after Day 1 (essays) than Day 2 (MBE). After the MBE, I felt pretty sour. It’s a hard test, and even if you know the law, sometimes it’s difficult to determine which choice is correct. I felt frustrated that so much of my knowledge hadn’t felt useful to me during the test. After the exam, I went directly to a different kind of Illinois bar. This is a highly recommended strategy. The next morning, I felt a little better about it. A week later, I began to feel confident, and by the time they were releasing scores, I was certain I passed...and I was right.
So, take heart. Passing the bar while working full time is very doable if you must do it, though preparation requires relentless hard work and is generally unpleasant. Hopefully someone finds this helpful, and good luck to everybody.
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Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
mod edit: spam
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Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
I do not believe this in the slightest bit. unless you racehorsed through the 300 mbes per subject without reviewing any of them.jonasquinn wrote:
...
Again, the 1.5 weeks leading up to the test, I feel, were the most crucial. I took time off, so I had full days, and I had finished all of the lectures. Though the schedule didn't call for this, I had to schedule my study plan in this manner because I had fallen behind. That schedule during the 1.5 weeks consisted of spending one full day for each MBE subject, doing about 300 MBEs per subject. The MBEs were less daunting at the time because Barpassers has online software to practice MBEs.
...
Hope that helps!
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Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
InTheWideLand I Walk wrote:I do not believe this in the slightest bit. unless you racehorsed through the 300 mbes per subject without reviewing any of them.jonasquinn wrote:
...
Again, the 1.5 weeks leading up to the test, I feel, were the most crucial. I took time off, so I had full days, and I had finished all of the lectures. Though the schedule didn't call for this, I had to schedule my study plan in this manner because I had fallen behind. That schedule during the 1.5 weeks consisted of spending one full day for each MBE subject, doing about 300 MBEs per subject. The MBEs were less daunting at the time because Barpassers has online software to practice MBEs.
...
Hope that helps!
100% agree. I've worked through 100 questions in a day, but 300 is not doable. I'd guess someone could probably get to 150-200 in a day, but 300 is just silly bs.
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Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
Thanks for the advertisement.LawGraduate2010 wrote:Check out AudioOutlines. They're simple and to-the-point, and you can listen to them during your commute.
http://audiooutlines.com
Can this guy be banned? All of the posts from this user are about AudioOutlines.com.
PS LawGraduate2010: go kill yourself.
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Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
Please don't tell users to kill themselves in the on topics. The best way to call mods' attention to spam is to report it when you see it using the report function. Thanks!
Last edited by xylocarp on Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
You mean threats aren't the proper way to handle one's self on the net...Mind = Blownxylocarp wrote:Please don't tell users to kill themselves in the on topics. The best way to call mods' attention to spam is to report it when you see it using the report function. Thanks!
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Re: Studying for the Bar Exam While Working Full Time
glad u agree. also, I think doing that many mbes like the week before the exam is not a good idea. essays should be done before the real thing, since they are 100% memory. mbes are just familiarity and speed. I advocate doing around 500 mbes the penultimate week before the exam, working on speed (i.e. 200 questions at oncee and only reviewing pnly the ones you got wrong), then cut it out at the 1 week mark and focus on essays, maybe a pt or 2 to sharpen the saw.MaroPolo wrote:InTheWideLand I Walk wrote:I do not believe this in the slightest bit. unless you racehorsed through the 300 mbes per subject without reviewing any of them.jonasquinn wrote:
...
Again, the 1.5 weeks leading up to the test, I feel, were the most crucial. I took time off, so I had full days, and I had finished all of the lectures. Though the schedule didn't call for this, I had to schedule my study plan in this manner because I had fallen behind. That schedule during the 1.5 weeks consisted of spending one full day for each MBE subject, doing about 300 MBEs per subject. The MBEs were less daunting at the time because Barpassers has online software to practice MBEs.
...
Hope that helps!
100% agree. I've worked through 100 questions in a day, but 300 is not doable. I'd guess someone could probably get to 150-200 in a day, but 300 is just silly bs.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
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