Question on Cravath Recruiting Forum

[RevolverX]

http://www.cravath.com/interviewschedule/

1) Howard is not ranked; do they only do OCI there because of AA?

2) The lowest ranked school on the list is probably Fordham, which is considerably lower than say Indiana University or U Illinois (on a national level); however, do Fordham students have the advantage of gaining a position because of proximity in NY, whereas Indiana folks are at the disadvantage?

That is all.

[thickfreakness]

You're not getting to Cravath from Indiana, hth.

[RevolverX]

So Fordham, despite being ranked nationally lower tha Indiana for instance, fares a better prospect because it's in NY and in this case, Fordham has stronger regional pull than national weight compared to Indy.

[Grizz]

You're not getting to Cravath from Indiana, hth.

Statistically, this is closer to the truth. I wouldn't base ANY decisions on where Cravath recruits from.

[Capitalist]

0L dumb question: it says they have "X school job fairs". What's the difference between their fairs and visits to other campuses?

[bhan87]

http://www.cravath.com/interviewschedule/

1) Howard is not ranked; do they only do OCI there because of AA?

2) The lowest ranked school on the list is probably Fordham, which is considerably lower than say Indiana University or U Illinois (on a national level); however, do Fordham students have the advantage of gaining a position because of proximity in NY, whereas Indiana folks are at the disadvantage?

That is all.

USNWR rankings are irrelevant.

And the legal field is regional, which isn't shocking to say the least.

[RevolverX]

0L dumb question: it says they have "X school job fairs". What's the difference between their fairs and visits to other campuses?

Was gonna include that, but its better to hope for a designated visit to a specific school, rather than an annoying job fair.

[Anonymous User]

Yes. There's more Fordham attorneys at Cravath than Penn. Fordham places really well there, even before they started being relatively unselective.

That said, I still think going to Cravath is one of the dumber moves you can make as a 2L.

[Aberzombie1892]

I didn't look at the Cravath lawyer profiles, but I've noticed that most NLJ250 firms hire staff attorneys from Howard - not associates. Sure, occasionally one gets hired as an associate, but those are few and far inbetween.

All of the recruiting at Howard is a smokescreen meant to confuse the uninformed.

[Capitalist]

That said, I still think going to Cravath is one of the dumber moves you can make as a 2L.

Care to elaborate?

[Anonymous User]

That said, I still think going to Cravath is one of the dumber moves you can make as a 2L.

Care to elaborate?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cravath,_S ... ore#Hiring

Entry to the firm is highly selective, generally open to only the most academically successful students from the most elite law schools in the United States and Canada. As with many top law firms, employee turnover is exceedingly high, with many attorneys departing the firm following a relatively brief tenure. As a rule of thumb, a third of an entering class departs by the end of their third year, and another third of those remaining depart by the end of their fifth year.[8]

[Renzo]

That said, I still think going to Cravath is one of the dumber moves you can make as a 2L.

Care to elaborate?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cravath,_S ... ore#Hiring

Entry to the firm is highly selective, generally open to only the most academically successful students from the most elite law schools in the United States and Canada. As with many top law firms, employee turnover is exceedingly high, with many attorneys departing the firm following a relatively brief tenure. As a rule of thumb, a third of an entering class departs by the end of their third year, and another third of those remaining depart by the end of their fifth year.[8]

So, you think all of biglaw is a bad idea, then?

[RevolverX]

That said, I still think going to Cravath is one of the dumber moves you can make as a 2L.

Care to elaborate?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cravath,_S ... ore#Hiring

Entry to the firm is highly selective, generally open to only the most academically successful students from the most elite law schools in the United States and Canada. As with many top law firms, employee turnover is exceedingly high, with many attorneys departing the firm following a relatively brief tenure. As a rule of thumb, a third of an entering class departs by the end of their third year, and another third of those remaining depart by the end of their fifth year.[8]

So, you think all of biglaw is a bad idea, then?

Indeed. To wit:

--LinkRemoved--

"Seriously, law students don't realize how much BIGLAW sucks. You can do it for a few years (I have) but after a while you realize that if you do this for life you will go fucking crazy and miss out on so much shit. I don't admit anyone who's a partner at work- I feel sorry for them. Because 99% of them are tools who just work all the time. They never have time to enjoy their money and they have no hobbies outside work. They are just fucking tools working for corporate America, and their entire life is defined by maximizing their billable hours."

[Renzo]

Indeed. To wit:

--LinkRemoved--

"Seriously, law students don't realize how much BIGLAW sucks. You can do it for a few years (I have) but after a while you realize that if you do this for life you will go fucking crazy and miss out on so much shit. I don't admit anyone who's a partner at work- I feel sorry for them. Because 99% of them are tools who just work all the time. They never have time to enjoy their money and they have no hobbies outside work. They are just fucking tools working for corporate America, and their entire life is defined by maximizing their billable hours."

I like to work, and I don't have any hobbies.

[Sup Kid]

Entry to the firm is highly selective, generally open to only the most academically successful students from the most elite law schools in the United States and Canada. As with many top law firms, employee turnover is exceedingly high, with many attorneys departing the firm following a relatively brief tenure. As a rule of thumb, a third of an entering class departs by the end of their third year, and another third of those remaining depart by the end of their fifth year.[8]

If 1/3 of your class is still around after year 5, that's pretty good. Biglaw = high attrition rates; this is nothing new, it's how the business model works.

[Rock Chalk]

.

[Rock Chalk]

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[PKSebben]

do Fordham students have the advantage of gaining a position because of proximity in NY, whereas Indiana folks are at the disadvantage?

Yes. It's a good school, it's conveniently close, and multiple Cravath partners are Fordham grads. Why wouldn't they go?

Fordham is a NYC biglaw institution. Top dudes at Fordham still get jerbs at the white shoes - WLRK. Indiana folks gonna have a tough time pulling biglaw, period.

[kings84_wr]

FWIW I think there was maybe one student at IU that got NYC Big law (Excluding transfers) much less Cravath

[Gideon Strumpet]

Top dudes at Fordham

--ImageRemoved--

[RevolverX]

FWIW I think there was maybe one student at IU that got NYC Big law (Excluding transfers) much less Cravath

I guess then that national rankings are sometimes irrelevant and immaterial, particularly with regard to Cravath hiring methods. According to TLS rankings, Fordham is ranked #30, whereas Indy is #23: http://www.top-law-schools.com/rankings.html

Like the earlier poster said, there are more Fordham grads than Penn grads in the firm, looks like "regional" schools sometimes have more influence than national ones, and I find that intriguing.

[Kabuo]

FWIW I think there was maybe one student at IU that got NYC Big law (Excluding transfers) much less Cravath

I guess then that national rankings are sometimes irrelevant and immaterial, particularly with regard to Cravath hiring methods. According to TLS rankings, Fordham is ranked #30, whereas Indy is #23: http://www.top-law-schools.com/rankings.html

Like the earlier poster said, there are more Fordham grads than Penn grads in the firm, looks like "regional" schools sometimes have more influence than national ones, and I find that intriguing.

Pretty much.

[Lwoods]

I didn't look at the Cravath lawyer profiles, but I've noticed that most NLJ250 firms hire staff attorneys from Howard - not associates. Sure, occasionally one gets hired as an associate, but those are few and far inbetween.

All of the recruiting at Howard is a smokescreen meant to confuse the uninformed.

My old firm (V50) hires about one new associate each year from Howard, but they're pretty big standouts (and all AA... I doubt an ORM could go to Howard and expect BigLaw recruiters to look at him/her).

And yes, big firms will round out their NY SA classes with Fordham students over those at higher ranked T1s because it's local, respectable, and practically free (cab fare) to send attorneys there.

[rayiner]

Indeed. To wit:

--LinkRemoved--

"Seriously, law students don't realize how much BIGLAW sucks. You can do it for a few years (I have) but after a while you realize that if you do this for life you will go fucking crazy and miss out on so much shit. I don't admit anyone who's a partner at work- I feel sorry for them. Because 99% of them are tools who just work all the time. They never have time to enjoy their money and they have no hobbies outside work. They are just fucking tools working for corporate America, and their entire life is defined by maximizing their billable hours."

I like to work, and I don't have any hobbies.

I'm also incredibly boring. That helps.

[nygrrrl]

Fordham is a NYC biglaw institution. Top dudes at Fordham still get jerbs at the white shoes - WLRK.