Penn State vs. Temple Law Forum

[brangara]

I'm waiting to hear from a couple of choice schools still (Pepperdine, USD, and Loyola LA), but as the first deposit deadline is coming up for some schools, I'm trying to make a preliminary decision on the best two in my bunch.

Temple Law School ($22,500 for 3 years, 2.5 GPA stipulation)
or
Penn State Law School ($30,000 for 3 years, top 50% stipulation)

I know the automatic answer for most would be Temple, but the numbers game isn't the only thing I'm considering. So, I would love to hear reasoning for both schools to help me make a more informed decision.

Thanks!

[patrickd139]

Your "choice" schools are all in California. Your poll schools are both in Pennsylvania. What gives?

[brangara]

Your "choice" schools are all in California. Your poll schools are both in Pennsylvania. What gives?

I'm from California, but I applied for some out of state just for variety. Of all the schools I've gotten so far, these are the best I've gotten. (The CA schools aren't coming through for me, moneywise.)

[patrickd139]

Any ties to Philly?

[brangara]

Any ties to Philly?

Nope. But I'm not deadset to work in PA, CA, or any state in particular just yet. I plan to play it as I go.

[BarbellDreams]

The best school out of all those that you applied to is Temple. If you are fine with living in Philly Temple will give you better job prospects than any other school you listed.

[patrickd139]

The best school out of all those that you applied to is Temple. If you are fine with living in Philly Temple will give you better job prospects than any other school you listed.

I disagree. None of the schools is going to give OP significant job prospects. The California options are terrible, and expensive. The Pennsylvania options are literally across the country from where OP has ties. Convincing employers in Philadelphia that you're not a flight risk is going to be a huge hurdle. This hurdle is so high in OP's case, and the cost of attendance so high, that (in my mind) it doesn't make sense to take that gamble.

OP: retake and reapply or go to one of the California schools. Increased rank is not enough to overcome the employment prospects, IMO.

[brangara]

The best school out of all those that you applied to is Temple. If you are fine with living in Philly Temple will give you better job prospects than any other school you listed.

I disagree. None of the schools is going to give OP significant job prospects. The California options are terrible, and expensive. The Pennsylvania options are literally across the country from where OP has ties. Convincing employers in Philadelphia that you're not a flight risk is going to be a huge hurdle. This hurdle is so high in OP's case, and the cost of attendance so high, that (in my mind) it doesn't make sense to take that gamble.

OP: retake and reapply or go to one of the California schools. Increased rank is not enough to overcome the employment prospects, IMO.

Can't retake, took three tries on the LSAT already. So no point reapplying next year. But thanks for the input, definitely gave me a lot to think about!

[northwood]

I would say your best bet would be temple. However, you need to visit both of them- and you also need to decide if you are okay with living across the country from your family and friends for the next13 years or so ( 3 for law school, and 10 for work). The distance is huge and may be difficult, especially if you are close to your family. IF you want to stay in Cali- go to one of those schools that offer you the best deal. Its too late for this cycle, but if you dont like your options you can always re apply next year, and aim for schools closer to home( and apply in september). This is a monumental decision- and you need to visit PA to decide if its foryou. Temple is in a big city, PSU is in a more typical college town. Whatever one of those that best fits you- go there. however, temple gives you a better shot at a bigger city ( philly) while psu will give you smaller cities- where being from cali may be more difficult to overcome ( although it may be an issue in philly as well).

hope this helps

[dreakol]

The best school out of all those that you applied to is Temple. If you are fine with living in Philly Temple will give you better job prospects than any other school you listed.

I disagree. None of the schools is going to give OP significant job prospects. The California options are terrible, and expensive. The Pennsylvania options are literally across the country from where OP has ties. Convincing employers in Philadelphia that you're not a flight risk is going to be a huge hurdle. This hurdle is so high in OP's case, and the cost of attendance so high, that (in my mind) it doesn't make sense to take that gamble.

OP: retake and reapply or go to one of the California schools. Increased rank is not enough to overcome the employment prospects, IMO.

would having family (extended) in PA be enough to convince employers that one isn't a flight risk? Even if they are from Pittsburgh and you are applying to Philly jobs and are from CA?

[TJISMYHERO]

0L here, but I would think attending school in PA would indicate to employers that you are in for the long haul.

Temple btw

[BarbellDreams]

The best school out of all those that you applied to is Temple. If you are fine with living in Philly Temple will give you better job prospects than any other school you listed.

I disagree. None of the schools is going to give OP significant job prospects. The California options are terrible, and expensive. The Pennsylvania options are literally across the country from where OP has ties. Convincing employers in Philadelphia that you're not a flight risk is going to be a huge hurdle. This hurdle is so high in OP's case, and the cost of attendance so high, that (in my mind) it doesn't make sense to take that gamble.

OP: retake and reapply or go to one of the California schools. Increased rank is not enough to overcome the employment prospects, IMO.

It depends on what you define as "significant". If its biglaw then no, none of these schools give you a good or even ok shot. But Temple places very well in Philly in general and has a better chance of landing a job (read: any job) then do the others given their respective markets. Also when you go to Temple you have to be able to spin it, but employers will not look at you as a flight risk for the long haul, at least not in the experience of the current law students on TLS who came to Temple/Nova from out of state or my own experience in similar circumstances (Chicago to Pitt with no ties).

Again, I would only advice Temple if you are truly ok with living and practicing in Philly, but if you are I think its a good choice.

[Aberzombie1892]

0L here, but I would think attending school in PA would indicate to employers that you are in for the long haul.

Temple btw

Yeah generally attending a law school in a particular state/market is enough to establish ties. There are some situations in which this is not true, such as some of the T14 (namely Duke or UPenn). Other than that, employers are convinced.

Ties generally come into play if you are from state X, go to law school in state Y, and want to practice in state X, or if you are from state X, go to law school in state Y, and want to practice in state Z.

[brangara]

Can anyone give me any insight into Penn State Law?

[gin]

The best school out of all those that you applied to is Temple. If you are fine with living in Philly Temple will give you better job prospects than any other school you listed.

I disagree. None of the schools is going to give OP significant job prospects. The California options are terrible, and expensive. The Pennsylvania options are literally across the country from where OP has ties. Convincing employers in Philadelphia that you're not a flight risk is going to be a huge hurdle. This hurdle is so high in OP's case, and the cost of attendance so high, that (in my mind) it doesn't make sense to take that gamble.

OP: retake and reapply or go to one of the California schools. Increased rank is not enough to overcome the employment prospects, IMO.

That kind of assumes that anyone who applies to schools outside a region are flight risks which is not the case.
For Penn State are you considering Charlilse or UP? It all depends on what are those other things you are looking for. If you don't mind being away from a major city, Penn State is nicer (and safer than Temple). At Temple you get access to the legal market in Philly. Temple might have a better program but that again depends on what you are looking for. I would ignore the rankings and just go with the one you would feel most comfortable attending...they're both peer school anyway

[brangara]

The best school out of all those that you applied to is Temple. If you are fine with living in Philly Temple will give you better job prospects than any other school you listed.

I disagree. None of the schools is going to give OP significant job prospects. The California options are terrible, and expensive. The Pennsylvania options are literally across the country from where OP has ties. Convincing employers in Philadelphia that you're not a flight risk is going to be a huge hurdle. This hurdle is so high in OP's case, and the cost of attendance so high, that (in my mind) it doesn't make sense to take that gamble.

OP: retake and reapply or go to one of the California schools. Increased rank is not enough to overcome the employment prospects, IMO.

That kind of assumes that anyone who applies to schools outside a region are flight risks which is not the case.
For Penn State are you considering Charlilse or UP? It all depends on what are those other things you are looking for. If you don't mind being away from a major city, Penn State is nicer (and safer than Temple). At Temple you get access to the legal market in Philly. Temple might have a better program but that depend again on what you are looking for. I would ignore the rankings and just go with the one you would feel most comfortable attending...they're both peer school anyway

I'm in at University Park. I visited on their Admit Day last weekend, and actually was feeling really good about the campus and faculty. But then I came home and the next day, I got in at Temple.

Yeah I'm definitely taking the safety into consideration, as well as the programs at both. Like I said, at the moment, I'm completely split (not even leaning a bit to either yet), so I'm open game to hear what everyone has to say about both. Thanks!

[BarbellDreams]

The best school out of all those that you applied to is Temple. If you are fine with living in Philly Temple will give you better job prospects than any other school you listed.

I disagree. None of the schools is going to give OP significant job prospects. The California options are terrible, and expensive. The Pennsylvania options are literally across the country from where OP has ties. Convincing employers in Philadelphia that you're not a flight risk is going to be a huge hurdle. This hurdle is so high in OP's case, and the cost of attendance so high, that (in my mind) it doesn't make sense to take that gamble.

OP: retake and reapply or go to one of the California schools. Increased rank is not enough to overcome the employment prospects, IMO.

That kind of assumes that anyone who applies to schools outside a region are flight risks which is not the case.
For Penn State are you considering Charlilse or UP? It all depends on what are those other things you are looking for. If you don't mind being away from a major city, Penn State is nicer (and safer than Temple). At Temple you get access to the legal market in Philly. Temple might have a better program but that again depends on what you are looking for. I would ignore the rankings and just go with the one you would feel most comfortable attending...they're both peer school anyway

I have no ties to either school but Temple and PSU are not equal when it comes to employment. Temple places better across the board and has a home market, PSU has no real market to call home cause it is in the middle of nowhere.

[HeavenWood]

PSU has no real market to call home cause it is in the middle of nowhere.

That isn't quite true. Keep in mind that until recently, Dickinson solely operated out of Carlisle. It primarily fed (and continues to primarily feed) small- to mid-sized firms in Harrisburg, York, and Lancaster. Its historic location has also afforded it strong ties to state government. That being said, if you want to work in Philadelphia, Temple provides a definite advantage in networking opportunities, owing to its strong, concentrated alumni base.

This is a question of Central PA vs. Eastern PA. Going to school in one region won't necessarily knock you out of the other, but their respective legal markets are insular enough that you should choose the school where you would feel more comfortable with the (very real) possibility of having to settle down there.

I hope this helps.

[aas911]

After visiting both schools, I can firmly say that the schools are extremely different in their teaching styles and general climate. I believe this can be attributed to their respective locations as well as Temple's pride in its litigation program(s). If you want a more intense legal education with a city lifestyle and/or if you want to practice on the litigation end of things, I'd choose Temple. However, if you want a more laid back environment from a school with a small town feel, I'd choose Penn State. Being from a smaller town in California, and having visited both of them, I voted for Penn State.

[BarbellDreams]

PSU has no real market to call home cause it is in the middle of nowhere.

That isn't quite true. Keep in mind that until recently, Dickinson solely operated out of Carlisle. It primarily fed (and continues to primarily feed) small- to mid-sized firms in Harrisburg, York, and Lancaster. Its historic location has also afforded it strong ties to state government. That being said, if you want to work in Philadelphia, Temple provides a definite advantage in networking opportunities, owing to its strong, concentrated alumni base.

This is a question of Central PA vs. Eastern PA. Going to school in one region won't necessarily knock you out of the other, but their respective legal markets are insular enough that you should choose the school where you would feel more comfortable with the (very real) possibility of having to settle down there.

I hope this helps.

Thats my point, those aren't real markets in a sense of how many job opportunities they provide. PSU has to basically reach all over the state because they do not have decent sized market outside of their front door, thats difficult to do.

[brangara]

Can anyone tell me about the safety of the Temple campus and surrounding area? As a woman coming from a very well-off suburb in California, safety is obviously a major concern for me. Thanks!

[seriously????]

PSU has no real market to call home cause it is in the middle of nowhere.

That isn't quite true. Keep in mind that until recently, Dickinson solely operated out of Carlisle. It primarily fed (and continues to primarily feed) small- to mid-sized firms in Harrisburg, York, and Lancaster. Its historic location has also afforded it strong ties to state government. That being said, if you want to work in Philadelphia, Temple provides a definite advantage in networking opportunities, owing to its strong, concentrated alumni base.

This is a question of Central PA vs. Eastern PA. Going to school in one region won't necessarily knock you out of the other, but their respective legal markets are insular enough that you should choose the school where you would feel more comfortable with the (very real) possibility of having to settle down there.

I hope this helps.

Thats my point, those aren't real markets in a sense of how many job opportunities they provide. PSU has to basically reach all over the state because they do not have decent sized market outside of their front door, thats difficult to do.

sure philly is a significantly larger market, but is split up from various schools such as Penn, Nova, Rutgers, Widener. If you add up York, Lancaster, Harrisburg and other central PA areas, its not a horrible market considering the only other home competition is Widener Harrisburg. it is pretty much a decision between country/suburbs vs city life. You do not need a biglaw salary to live comfortably in central PA though. But it does seem like your debt for both schools will be over 100k, which is still somewhat of a risky proposition. O, and in terms of going back to CA, Penn State prolly has much better name recognition just because of its sports programs.

[HeavenWood]

O, and in terms of going back to CA, Penn State prolly has much better name recognition just because of its sports programs.

I question whether this name recognition will open doors on the West Coast.

[seriously????]

O, and in terms of going back to CA, Penn State prolly has much better name recognition just because of its sports programs.

I question whether this name recognition will open doors on the West Coast.

true, only a miniscule advantage, but if all things being equal, it could tilt the scale.

[HeavenWood]

O, and in terms of going back to CA, Penn State prolly has much better name recognition just because of its sports programs.

I question whether this name recognition will open doors on the West Coast.

true, only a miniscule advantage, but if all things being equal, it could tilt the scale.

That's fair, but it would be incredibly foolish to go to either school expecting the West coast.