Duke Class of 2013 Forum

[ObviouslyMasochistic]

prezidentv8 -

Wanted to thank you as well for your comments re academics and grades....both you and Masochistic have been really generous - making yourselves available to post on our class thread...

Fo sho.

Masochistic -

How does one get on the "Duke Law Journal"? How intense is the competition? Is it based on a writing competition...and/or is it based on grades? What exactly is the process...and when does it occur? What about the other supplemental journals?

"Duke Law Journal" is highly regarded here at the (Vault 25) firm where I work...

Thanks...

To get onto any of Duke's nine journals, you must compete in the casenote competition. Luckily for you, I just went through this a couple of weeks ago, so it's very fresh in my mind.

Sometime in April during your 1L year, the journals will hold a joint meeting and explain the casenote competition to you. Shortly after that meeting, you will receive the instructions for the competition. Basically, they send you a case citation; it's up to you to decide what aspects of the case to write about. Your casenote can only be 14 pages long [[BUT - 10 point font!]] and is due a couple of weeks after spring exams (was due May 18 this year).

You submit your casenote online along with your preferences of which journals you would like to join. Duke has 6 "exclusive" journals and 3 "non-exclusive" journals. You can be on only 1 exclusive journal and as many non-exclusive journals as you'd like. So you rank the 6 journals in order of your preference. Most everyone puts DLJ first, I think.

Each journal has different grading criteria to determine who they want. DLJ takes 13 people on grades alone, 13 people on casenote alone, and 13 people based on a combination of the two. Other journals weigh grades and casenote scores in different ways to decide who to invite to their journal.

We hear back in late July about what journals picked us. At that point, we can accept or decline their invitations to join.

I think that's the basic jist of the casenote competition; if I left something out that you would like answered, let me know!

Oh, FYI, the case for this year's competition is here: http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threa ... snyder.pdf
Give it a read, or at least the facts, it's pretty fantastic.

Yeah I was going to answer but you beat me to it. Solid explanation, I added one comment re: font size. Also, the facts of that case and a few of the cited cases are AWESOME.

I was too chicken to go down to size 10 font! Stuck with 12 just because I was worried the small font would piss off the readers.

Also, just found this on my hard drive, not sure if the formatting with work, but let's give it a go.
(The numbers are the number of students taken each year by the journal; the letters are abbreviations for the journals, look them up if confused)

ALR
Second-year students. ALR selects rising second-year students on the
basis of their casenote scores (45%) and grades (50%). A statement of
interest indicating personal experience with Alaska accounts for the
remaining 5% of the selection criteria, however students should submit a
personal statement only if they have an interest in or tie to Alaska.
13
DELPF
Second-year students. DELPF selects rising second-year students on the
basis of their casenote or legal writing sample scores (50%), statements of
interest (30%), and grades (20%).
15
DFLSC
Second-year students. DFLSC selects rising second-year students on the
basis of their casenote scores (40%), statements of interest (40%), and
grades (20%).
14
DJCIL
Second-year students. DJCIL selects rising second-year students on the
basis of their casenote scores (60%), grades (20%), and statements of
interest (20%).
21
DJCLPP Second-year students. DJCLPP selects up to twenty rising second-year
students on the basis of casenote scores (60%) and grades (40%). 17
DJGLP
Second-year students. DJGLP selects thirteen rising second-year students
each year on the basis of their casenote scores (50%) and a brief
confidential statement of interest (30%), and first-year grades (20%).
13
DLJ
Second-year students. DLJ selects 14 members (1/3) on the basis of GPA
alone, then, 14 members (1/3) on the basis of casenote score alone, and
finally, 14 members (1/3) on a combination of GPA and casenote score.
42
DTLR
Second-year students. DLTR selects rising second-year students on the
basis of their casenote scores (60%), grades (25%), and statements of
interest (15%).
19
L&CP
Second-year students. Each year L&CP invites 19 rising second years to
join the journal through the case note competition. The two students with
the overall highest case note scores, as determined by L&CP, are first
eligible to receive invitations based solely on their case note scores. Then
students are selected based on a combination of first year grades (60%)
and their case note scores (40%). L&CP also selects up to two rising thirdyear
students on the basis of their GPAs alone. The 3Ls invited are those
with the next highest GPAs who are not already on an exclusive journal.
L&CP also selects up to two transfer students.
19

[prezidentv8]

stuff

I salute your attention to detail.

Also, personal statements for journals are the devil.

[paralegal]

Masochistic -

Thanks for the summary regarding the casenote competition for Duke's nine journals...glad it was still fresh in your mind...

I especially appreciated the link to the case for this year's competition...and thanks for including the info on your hard drive re the number of students taken each year by specific journals.

Interesting that each journal has different criteria: grades alone, casenotes alone, and grades and casenotes...and Duke Law Journal takes 42 members.

fingers crossed on your success (and Prezidentv8's) re this year's competition...

[idiothek]

masochistic and prezident: thanks so muchhhh

[ObviouslyMasochistic]

No problem all and thanks to prezidentv8 for helping fill in the gaps that I miss.

I thought it was crazy that there are 173 slots on journals every year. Not a bad number for a class of ~220. Of course, the 173 includes exclusive and non-exclusive journals, yada yada. But I'll have to say, the knowledge that there were that many total spots made the process much less stressful for me.

[thickfreakness]

Oh, FYI, the case for this year's competition is here: http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threa ... snyder.pdf
Give it a read, or at least the facts, it's pretty fantastic.

Nice. That one's better than BONG HiTS FOR JESUS.

[Flanker1067]

Someone in the Duke waitlist thread just wrote that Hoye mentioned that our incoming class was currently overenrolled by 45 people.

[Jericwithers]

Someone in the Duke waitlist thread just wrote that Hoye mentioned that our incoming class was currently overenrolled by 45 people.

o.O that doesn't sound good.

P.S. I am willing to take a deferment for 2x the scholarship money

[paralegal]

I thought it was crazy that there are 173 slots on journals every year. Not a bad number for a class of ~220. Of course, the 173 includes exclusive and non-exclusive journals, yada yada. But I'll have to say, the knowledge that there were that many total spots made the process much less stressful for me.

This is one of the "key" reasons why I chose Duke over other schools, including NYU. Can you imagine the odds of getting on law journal at NYU with 500 law students per class?.....or the odds at Harvard or Columbia with their large class sizes?

And the significance of being on a journal, particularly Duke Law Journal, is "major" in terms of employment opportunities....crucial for top biglaw firms...and ITE...with more competition for fewer biglaw offers...even more crucial...

...I can only speak to the V25 firm here....where it's very competative to be hired and without exception "all" of the associates have been on law journal....

[Reedie]

This is one of the "key" reasons why I chose Duke over other schools, including NYU. Can you imagine the odds of getting on law journal at NYU with 500 law students per class?.....or the odds at Harvard or Columbia with their large class sizes?

Same here. Plus can you imagine trying to live in Manhattan on a student budget?

[Flanker1067]

Someone in the Duke waitlist thread just wrote that Hoye mentioned that our incoming class was currently overenrolled by 45 people.

o.O that doesn't sound good.

P.S. I am willing to take a deferment for 2x the scholarship money

Agreed.

[Reedie]

Someone in the Duke waitlist thread just wrote that Hoye mentioned that our incoming class was currently overenrolled by 45 people.

o.O that doesn't sound good.

P.S. I am willing to take a deferment for 2x the scholarship money

Difficult to know what that indicates without knowing about previous years.

[poprox]

I wish we knew exactly how many students Duke enrolled this year. If they have, for example, enrolled 45 more than last year, that would be doing all of us a huge disservice. Especially given the current reduction in legal hiring, it would seem to make more sense to under-enroll rather than over-enroll. If they have over-enrolled by such a relatively large margin, science help us when we go looking for jobs! It could be even more brutal than already expected.

[Jericwithers]

I wish we knew exactly how many students Duke enrolled this year. If they have, for example, enrolled 45 more than last year, that would be doing all of us a huge disservice. Especially given the current reduction in legal hiring, it would seem to make more sense to under-enroll rather than over-enroll. If they have over-enrolled by such a relatively large margin, science help us when we go looking for jobs! It could be even more brutal than already expected.

I'm willing to defer for only a 1.5x scholarship increase now

[ObviouslyMasochistic]

I wish we knew exactly how many students Duke enrolled this year. If they have, for example, enrolled 45 more than last year, that would be doing all of us a huge disservice. Especially given the current reduction in legal hiring, it would seem to make more sense to under-enroll rather than over-enroll. If they have over-enrolled by such a relatively large margin, science help us when we go looking for jobs! It could be even more brutal than already expected.

Class of 2010 = Class of 2011 = 215.
Class of 2012 = 228.
Class of 2013 = 273?

I don't see any way they'd let that happen.

[Reedie]

I wish we knew exactly how many students Duke enrolled this year. If they have, for example, enrolled 45 more than last year, that would be doing all of us a huge disservice. Especially given the current reduction in legal hiring, it would seem to make more sense to under-enroll rather than over-enroll. If they have over-enrolled by such a relatively large margin, science help us when we go looking for jobs! It could be even more brutal than already expected.

Class of 2010 = Class of 2011 = 215.
Class of 2012 = 228.
Class of 2013 = 273?

I don't see any way they'd let that happen.

If their target is 200 (which I think is right?) then 245 would be 45 overenrolled.

Edit:

I can't seem to find their target number anywhere. Anyway, I wouldn't panic just yet. I think schools aren't finished with their waitists yet, and some movement should probably be expected. Someone could contact admissions if they are really concerned.

[poprox]

I wish we knew exactly how many students Duke enrolled this year. If they have, for example, enrolled 45 more than last year, that would be doing all of us a huge disservice. Especially given the current reduction in legal hiring, it would seem to make more sense to under-enroll rather than over-enroll. If they have over-enrolled by such a relatively large margin, science help us when we go looking for jobs! It could be even more brutal than already expected.

I'm willing to defer for only a 1.5x scholarship increase now

What if none of those 45 students will be seeking work in Texas?

[Jericwithers]

I wish we knew exactly how many students Duke enrolled this year. If they have, for example, enrolled 45 more than last year, that would be doing all of us a huge disservice. Especially given the current reduction in legal hiring, it would seem to make more sense to under-enroll rather than over-enroll. If they have over-enrolled by such a relatively large margin, science help us when we go looking for jobs! It could be even more brutal than already expected.

I'm willing to defer for only a 1.5x scholarship increase now

What if none of those 45 students will be seeking work in Texas?

Hrm, interesting point. I would have to consider if the Duke name alone (with no competition) would land me a good job back in Texas, or if a good class rank would also be necessary.

I'm sure the number will go down slightly, but nothing close to 45 people. I don't know which schools will be pulling from their waitlist so heavily that it would cause more than 5-10 people to leave Duke. I know Michigan is enrolled at capacity, and I would guess that many other top schools are too. Checking the waitlist statuses of the top 6 schools would probably give us a clue as to how many friends we will be making in the fall.

[Reedie]

I don't know which schools will be pulling from their waitlist so heavily that it would cause more than 5-10 people to leave Duke. I know Michigan is enrolled at capacity, and I would guess that many other top schools are too.

That's pretty tough to say without knowing what has happened in previous years. Michigan hasn't purged their waitlist yet and is expecting some movement due to other schools making waitlist offers.

Edit:

Found the post. Talking about hiring an extra 1L prof? Ick. That sure does sound bad.

[Jericwithers]

I don't know which schools will be pulling from their waitlist so heavily that it would cause more than 5-10 people to leave Duke. I know Michigan is enrolled at capacity, and I would guess that many other top schools are too.

That's pretty tough to say without knowing what has happened in previous years. Michigan hasn't purged their waitlist yet and is expecting some movement due to other schools making waitlist offers.

Previous years may or may not be indicative of what to expect this year though. Michigan said they will start purging soon, and deposit deadlines have passed for many (all?) schools. Where will room at these top schools come from? People depositing at multiple schools? Deferrals? Drop-outs? Those numbers do start to add up, but to remove 15 (not to mention 45) people from a single schools seems weird. I guess it is only early June though, so some schools might not even know whether they are over or under-enrolled yet. If they are still 45 people over in July though I'll be making the call and seeing how much my seat is worth to them lol.

[rotflawl]

[Jericwithers]

Seriously Where is the link to this information?

[Reedie]

Seriously Where is the link to this information?

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 7&t=116608

[thickfreakness]

I'm not too worried about over-enrollment. The facilities are more than ample to accomodate a larger class size (or so it seems). Also, since Duke doesn't have a home market there's still not likely to be that much overlap or competition between students in our class. Obviously 200 is preferable to 245, since you'd have less students for the same amount of staff, faculty, etc. Still, I don't think that winding up at 240, 230 or the like is going to be overwhelmingly negative.

[someones alt]

So I finally find a roommate and an apartment only to return to doom and gloom about overenrollment? I miss all the "DUKE WOOOOO". 45 extra students are just 45 more people to impress every time I throw my hand up before the professor is even done asking his question.