California Law Schools Forum

[MHustle620]

Hey, I'm looking at several California law schools and have UCLA, USC, Loyola, Pepperdine, and Southwestern on my list.

I'm not an URM and I got a 159 on the LSAT. My GPA is 3.7. I am attending a public university in Pennsylvania. No significant internships or awards.

Are all of these schools worth applying to? Which ones am I likely to get into? I'd just like to have some kind of reference for my expectations of admission.

Thanks!

[savesthedayajb]

UCLA and USC probably out, but apply you could get lucky who knows. Loyola and Pepperdine you have a good shot, probably in. Southwestern you are 100% in. Try Hastings and Davis, you have a shot there too.

[Oban]

UCLA - OUT
USC - OUT
Southwestern - IN
Loyola - WL/In
Pepperdine - WL/??

Retake the LSAT and boost score above 165 and you'll have a shoot at USC, if you get 168+ you'll be a lock at USC.
Get a 163ish and you're in at the Pepp and Loyola.

[MHustle620]

UCLA - OUT
USC - OUT
Southwestern - IN
Loyola - WL/In
Pepperdine - WL/??

Retake the LSAT and boost score above 165 and you'll have a shoot at USC, if you get 168+ you'll be a lock at USC.
Get a 163ish and you're in at the Pepp and Loyola.

Thanks for the feedback. You really think I should consider retaking the LSATs? I've read that generally people don't do much better than a few points and many schools average the two scores. On top of that, I'm planning to get my applications in by Thanksgiving, so how will that affect my chances if I get my December LSAT scores (presumably) sometime in January?

[soccersmo]

I would definetely retake... did you study a lot before? because if you didnt have a large amount of prep you could have a substantial increase in a matter of 1 1/2 months... (I jumped appx. 8 points in the last month and a half)... even if you could just break past 162-3 Pepperdine and Loyola would admit you for sure, and you would have a much better chance at Davis and Hastings, but you will probably need a 165+ for USC and a 166+ for UCLA... you can apply noting that you are retaking in December and schools will hold your application, and most schools take your highest score ... and who knows, if you do get around a 164-165 you could be looking at $ from Pepperdine and Loyola. check out USD also

[ViP]

UCLA - OUT
USC - OUT
Southwestern - IN
Loyola - WL/In
Pepperdine - WL/??

Retake the LSAT and boost score above 165 and you'll have a shoot at USC, if you get 168+ you'll be a lock at USC.
Get a 163ish and you're in at the Pepp and Loyola.

Thanks for the feedback. You really think I should consider retaking the LSATs? I've read that generally people don't do much better than a few points and many schools average the two scores. On top of that, I'm planning to get my applications in by Thanksgiving, so how will that affect my chances if I get my December LSAT scores (presumably) sometime in January?

Scoring higher on the Dec. test and sending apps afterwards > sending apps earlier with a lower score

Then again, you know best if you can indeed improve in December. You can definitely change your studying habits and score a few points higher, but of course, nothing is guaranteed.

With your current numbers:
UCLA - OUT
USC - OUT
Southwestern - IN
Loyola - tossup
Pepperdine - tossup
-------------------
Davis- OUT
Hastings- OUT

EDIT: IMPORTANT QUESTION- Have you uploaded your transcript to LSAC? Is 3.7 your LSDAS GPA or your undergrad GPA? Very, very important to distinguish.

[MHustle620]

I would definetely retake... did you study a lot before? because if you didnt have a large amount of prep you could have a substantial increase in a matter of 1 1/2 months... (I jumped appx. 8 points in the last month and a half)... even if you could just break past 162-3 Pepperdine and Loyola would admit you for sure, and you would have a much better chance at Davis and Hastings, but you will probably need a 165+ for USC and a 166+ for UCLA... you can apply noting that you are retaking in December and schools will hold your application, and most schools take your highest score ... and who knows, if you do get around a 164-165 you could be looking at $ from Pepperdine and Loyola. check out USD also

I wasn't nearly as disciplined as I should have been until the week before the test. I essentially crammed for the LSAT. I vowed that I would be one and done, but now that I've talked to friends who scored higher with similar or lower GPAs, I wonder if I could do significantly better.

[MHustle620]

EDIT: IMPORTANT QUESTION- Have you uploaded your transcript to LSAC? Is 3.7 your LSDAS GPA or your undergrad GPA? Very, very important to distinguish.

3.73 is my undergrad GPA. Should have specified.

[soccersmo]

I would definetely retake... did you study a lot before? because if you didnt have a large amount of prep you could have a substantial increase in a matter of 1 1/2 months... (I jumped appx. 8 points in the last month and a half)... even if you could just break past 162-3 Pepperdine and Loyola would admit you for sure, and you would have a much better chance at Davis and Hastings, but you will probably need a 165+ for USC and a 166+ for UCLA... you can apply noting that you are retaking in December and schools will hold your application, and most schools take your highest score ... and who knows, if you do get around a 164-165 you could be looking at $ from Pepperdine and Loyola. check out USD also

I wasn't nearly as disciplined as I should have been until the week before the test. I essentially crammed for the LSAT. I vowed that I would be one and done, but now that I've talked to friends who scored higher with similar or lower GPAs, I wonder if I could do significantly better.

yea, LSAT is not really a cram test, unless your just a genius (which although a lot of TLS'ers act like we are, its generally not the case haha)... i would retake... honestly putting in a few hours everyday... taking a diag once or twice a week up until the test... I'm sure you will do better if you managed to almost break into the 160's with just a week of cramming... its very learnable if you put in the effort and it would vastly change your chances if you could increase by even just 4 points or so
yea and check out your LSDAS GPA, mine didnt change much but some people's change a lot, which would be crucial for you

[ViP]

EDIT: IMPORTANT QUESTION- Have you uploaded your transcript to LSAC? Is 3.7 your LSDAS GPA or your undergrad GPA? Very, very important to distinguish.

3.73 is my undergrad GPA. Should have specified.

Hmmm...

I don't know how familiar you are with the law school process, but your undergrad GPA is essentially meaningless. LSAC weighs your GPA once they receive your undergrad transcript, and that is the GPA that law schools will use.

[MHustle620]

yea, LSAT is not really a cram test, unless your just a genius (which although a lot of TLS'ers act like we are, its generally not the case haha)... i would retake... honestly putting in a few hours everyday... taking a diag once or twice a week up until the test... I'm sure you will do better if you managed to almost break into the 160's with just a week of cramming... its very learnable if you put in the effort and it would vastly change your chances if you could increase by even just 4 points or so
yea and check out your LSDAS GPA, mine didnt change much but some people's change a lot, which would be crucial for you

I figured that a more moderate approach to studying would help the second time around, I just worry about fluking into a worse score. I guess I'll consider retaking it so a few more of those schools are closer to being sure things. Thanks.

[MHustle620]

Hmmm...

I don't know how familiar you are with the law school process, but your undergrad GPA is essentially meaningless. LSAC weighs your GPA once they receive your undergrad transcript, and that is the GPA that law schools will use.

I find myself learning by trial and error. I'll get right on that GPA.

[ozarkhack]

We have similar #s. So I hope you've got a chance at Davis/Hastings ... though only if enough room for me first.

And don't forget Santa Clara and McGeorge. ... If you must get to California and don't want to retake, surely you're good in either of those, certainly McGeorge (you'll get fee waivers, anyway).

[socalren]

Have you considered University of San Diego? The campus was awesome and alumni job numbers promising.

[MHustle620]

Have you considered University of San Diego? The campus was awesome and alumni job numbers promising.

While that sounds good, I'm currently exploring a career in Entertainment law, so I'm sticking to the LA area.

[Foozle]

EDIT: IMPORTANT QUESTION- Have you uploaded your transcript to LSAC? Is 3.7 your LSDAS GPA or your undergrad GPA? Very, very important to distinguish.

3.73 is my undergrad GPA. Should have specified.

Hmmm...

I don't know how familiar you are with the law school process, but your undergrad GPA is essentially meaningless. LSAC weighs your GPA once they receive your undergrad transcript, and that is the GPA that law schools will use.

Err...what?

For most people the undergrad GPA will be pretty close to their LSAC GPA. LSAC's scale isn't dramatically different than most undergrad institutions.

My LSAC and undergrad GPAs are the same, even though LSAC weighs plusses and minuses a little bit different than how my school does it. It's not "essentially meaningless"

[MHustle620]

How much will retaking the test set me back in the process? Is it possible to set everything up before the Dec 5 LSAT, take it, and send in all my applications immediately after that with no complications?

I guess I'm torn between maximizing my chances to get into those top 20 schools and making sure I don't doom myself with procrastination.

[ViP]

EDIT: IMPORTANT QUESTION- Have you uploaded your transcript to LSAC? Is 3.7 your LSDAS GPA or your undergrad GPA? Very, very important to distinguish.

3.73 is my undergrad GPA. Should have specified.

Hmmm...

I don't know how familiar you are with the law school process, but your undergrad GPA is essentially meaningless. LSAC weighs your GPA once they receive your undergrad transcript, and that is the GPA that law schools will use.

Err...what?

For most people the undergrad GPA will be pretty close to their LSAC GPA. LSAC's scale isn't dramatically different than most undergrad institutions.

My LSAC and undergrad GPAs are the same, even though LSAC weighs plusses and minuses a little bit different than how my school does it. It's not "essentially meaningless"

No, it's not essentially meaningless in the sense that your LSDAS GPA corresponds to it, but it is essentially meaningless in the sense that law schools don't really look at it (which was my point).

The smallest differences (e.g. 3.78 vs. 3.83, or 3.27 vs. 3.33) can make a huge difference when it comes to admissions.

[DannyJames]

How much will retaking the test set me back in the process? Is it possible to set everything up before the Dec 5 LSAT, take it, and send in all my applications immediately after that with no complications?

I guess I'm torn between maximizing my chances to get into those top 20 schools and making sure I don't doom myself with procrastination.

My suggestion: apply now, and make sure to note that you will be retaking. it shows the "early" aspect you are worried about and allows your December score to be fully considered with your application. If you plan on crushing the LSAT this time, you could take your chances and hold off, but I'd recommend getting everything out of the way so that the LSAT is all that the schools need come January. Good luck, I myself am HOPING to hit 170, shooting for 165 this go around

[misformafia]

I had the same exact numbers as you last year . . .
USC - OUT
UCLA - OUT
Hastings - WL/ Withdrew
Loyola - In within a week of applying.

Do yourself a HUGE favor and put the time in and retake. A few more points will let your GPA shine. Don't waste all the hard undergrad work. lol. Good luck.

[MHustle620]

I had the same exact numbers as you last year . . .
USC - OUT
UCLA - OUT
Hastings - WL/ Withdrew
Loyola - In within a week of applying.

Do yourself a HUGE favor and put the time in and retake. A few more points will let your GPA shine. Don't waste all the hard undergrad work. lol. Good luck.

Thank you, It's very comforting to see that you got in Loyola within a week of applying...I haven't visited but it seems like a place I'd like to study. I think it's right to look at it as under-utilizing my GPA if I send my applications in with a 159.

[misformafia]

I had the same exact numbers as you last year . . .
USC - OUT
UCLA - OUT
Hastings - WL/ Withdrew
Loyola - In within a week of applying.

Do yourself a HUGE favor and put the time in and retake. A few more points will let your GPA shine. Don't waste all the hard undergrad work. lol. Good luck.

Thank you, It's very comforting to see that you got in Loyola within a week of applying...I haven't visited but it seems like a place I'd like to study. I think it's right to look at it as under-utilizing my GPA if I send my applications in with a 159.

Loyola is quite truly a little oasis in downtown LA. I withdrew and went somewhere else, but I would have looooooved to be in LA. And no joke about retaking. I completely understand, your GPA kicks ass! Don't waste it, isolate your LSAT weakness, whatever section. Buy a bible and go to work. That's my biggest regret. Plus, even a few points can make a big scholarship difference at Loyola.

[MHustle620]

Thanks to everyone who advised me to retake. I worked hard and scored five points higher the second time around - 164...I'm still not pleased but I think it gives me a much better chance.

I applied to USC and UCLA in early December, and noted that I was expecting a new score in addition to my first LSAT score of 159 and LSDAS GPA of 3.68.

Do you think I have a shot of getting in/getting wait listed at either of these schools? Just a reminder, I'm not an URM.

[MHustle620]

Just wondering if I'm deluding myself thinking that I've significantly increased my chances with that second score.