163 LSAT, 3.85 GPA, and Columbia Law School Forum

[qbid275k]

Hey Guys,

I've been trying to decide whether I should retake the LSAT or not, I got a 163, about seven points below my average practice test score of a 170, and I have a 3.85 LSAC Cum GPA (with a couple of low grades early on in my college years that I can explain to the admin board, will that make a difference)

If I choose to not retake the LSAT, and if I apply ED to Columbia or UPenn, do you think I have even any shot at all in getting into Columbia (my dream school) or UPenn? Are my chances shot?

Any advice/input would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks a lot!

[Cleareyes]

Retake. Assuming you aren't an URM you have virtually no shot with that LSAT at either school.

Nobody, and I mean nobody in the entire world up to and including your mother, wants to hear explanations for why you got a few low grades. Your GPA is what it is. Fortunately for you it's good enough for any school. Now raise your LSAT.

[Dialogue]

Even if you retake and get a 170, you'll likely be waistlisted at both.

[oneforship]

Hey Guys,

I've been trying to decide whether I should retake the LSAT or not, I got a 163, about seven points below my average practice test score of a 170, and I have a 3.85 LSAC Cum GPA (with a couple of low grades early on in my college years that I can explain to the admin board, will that make a difference)

If I choose to not retake the LSAT, and if I apply ED to Columbia or UPenn, do you think I have even any shot at all in getting into Columbia (my dream school) or UPenn? Are my chances shot?

Any advice/input would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks a lot!

Retake. Don't write a GPA addendum for your 3.85, that sounds ridiculous to me. I didn't write an addendum and my GPA isn't even in the same stratosphere as yours. Bring our LSAT up and give yourself a chance.

[CCG925]

If 170 is your average on PTs at home, there is still a chance your score will fall in the 165-169 range on Dec. 5. It just depends on 1) What the biggest problem with your performance on the June LSAT? 2) How much time you can devote to studying in the next 40 some days? and 3) What the applicant pool looks like by mid-January. Personally, I don't know anyone that has gotten into CLS without breaking 170 (but I only know 4 people) and if you retake, you do need at least a 170 and get that spread- otherwise, they will average the scores.

As for Penn, it's not like they will throw your app out - it's just a lower probability. That's what a reach school is. If you decide to not retake, then max your chances with the 163 by applying early. Why not apply? I've always loved their ridiculous undergrad/grad essay prompts.

[kurla88]

No shot at either currently. Retake. Great shot at Penn with a 170. 170 also makes your app to Columbia worthwhile.

No GPA addendum.

[qbid275k]

Thanks, Guys, for all your responses.

If I do not retake, what do you think my chances are at Cornell, Georgetown, Fordham, BU, George Washington, and Berkeley (strictly based on the numbers)?

Thank you all again!

[najumobi]

Thanks, Guys, for all your responses.

If I do not retake, what do you think my chances are at Cornell, Georgetown, Fordham, BU, George Washington, and Berkeley (strictly based on the numbers)?

Thank you all again!

unrealistic reach
Cornell, georgetown, and berkeley

realistic reach:
fordham, BU, george washington

if you don't retake, you would need to add some less selective target schools.

[vsg211]

We have almost the exact same numbers (my GPA is slightly lower) and I'm applying to Fordham, BU, George Washington, also. From reading TLS and doing the law school calculator, GWU seems a bit more likely than BU and Fordham but I think a wait list is more likely for all three than anything else :/ good luck with your cycle!

[hypermeganet]

BU/Fordham/WUSTL/W&M

These are more in the target zone for you. GW/BC/GT - PT I think are in the realistic reach zone.

Anything above WUSTL will be a waitlist/reject. I'm in a similar boat. Retake.

[danr2040]

OP, you have to retake the LSAT if you want not just Columbia, but any T-14 really.

I was in the same situation as you; practicing at a 170 but ended up with a 164 to go with a >3.8 <3.9 GPA. Even after I boosted the LSAT to a 168 in Dec (applying from a top undergrad) I only managed to get into the bottom of the T-14 with no $, caught waitlists at all the rest. The problem with your GPA is that it is high, but not high enough to break 75th percentile at schools in the T-14 who like high GPA splitters (UVA, Penn, Berk.), so you will only catch waitlists with them I predict. Columbia does not seem to have an affinity for high GPA splitters and will probably reject you outright if you apply now, you need to hit their 25th percentile LSAT at least to have better than a snowball's chance.

The only reason I ended up getting off one of those waitlists (with $$$) was that I finally got the magic 170 on the third LSAT. You owe it to yourself to give this learnable test at least one more shot, you gain access to a whole new range of opportunities that are safer ITE if you get that 170. Do all the new practice tests straight through, practice early in the morning, and good luck!