What are my chances to Upenn, Cornell, UCB(GMAT730.former engineer) Forum

[lubei]

Hello everyone,

I graduated from a top15 University and majored in Engineering(with bachelor and master degree) with GPA 3.4+.
I have worked as a hardware engineer in both America and Asia for years. Two years ago I got a GMAT score(730) and didn't take LSAT.

I am currently considering top law schools(Cornell,Upenn,UCB,CLS). What are the chances to get into them.Welcome all suggestions with honesty!

About me: 30(age), asian male.

[dvlthndr]

Honestly? Your odds are bad.

Very few schools accept the GMAT, and some only accept it if you are applying to a dual-degree program (e.g., Chicago Law JD + Chicago Booth MBA). Similar to applying with a GRE score, there just aren't a lot of data points to look at. But the assumptions are usually (1) you are less likely to get scholarships and your overall admission chances are reduced; (2) your GPA is at least as important as a normal applicant, since it will still get factored into the school's medians; and (3) a best case scenario is that your GMAT/GRE score is treated like an LSAT score with an equivalent "percentile" (i.e., a GMAT score of 730 is ~95 percentile, which would be like a 168 on the LSAT).

Put another way, I think the best you could hope for is to treated similar to an applicant with a 3.4/168. But an applicant with a 3.4/168 would have an extremely difficult time getting into the schools you named (or any T14 school for that matter). The GPA is just too low, and your test score isn't high enough to compensate for it. The fact that you have a quantitative background and a graduate degree are "soft" factors that cut in your favor (and you could consider writing a diversity statement, with the understanding that you won't get the same boost that an "underrepresented" minority might), but Law School is primarily a numbers game.

That said, you can try applying anyway and just see what happens. Nobody knows exactly how schools will treat an applicant with a GMAT score, so you just take your shot and hope to get lucky. But the conventional advice would be to either (1) take the LSAT and aim for a 170+ score so that you can apply as a splitter; or (2) reevaluate if you actually need to attend a "top" law school to achieve your goals.

[007sean]

You must apply to a much broader range of schools, and include the lower end of top 15-30. Some in that group do very well in employment due to their location (e.g, Fordham)
The GMAT will not per se hurt you. But it will necessarily shift more weight to your GPA, and that will be a challenge. So apply very broadly.

[lubeidong]

thanks for your advice! really helpful.

how about 3.4/175? Finally I decided to get a lsat score and apply for law schoolz as a splitter.

Btw, I double reviewed my transcript. I got 3.8 UGPA at the last second sem, but 2.8 at the last sem. If I could explain what happened in the last sem, can I dream a better resul?

[lubeidong]

thanks for your advice! really helpful.

how about 3.4/175? Finally I decided to get a lsat score and apply for law schoolz as a splitter.

Btw, I double reviewed my transcript. I got 3.8 UGPA at the last second sem, but 2.8 at the last sem. If I could explain what happened in the last sem, can I dream a better result?

Honestly? Your odds are bad.

Very few schools accept the GMAT, and some only accept it if you are applying to a dual-degree program (e.g., Chicago Law JD + Chicago Booth MBA). Similar to applying with a GRE score, there just aren't a lot of data points to look at. But the assumptions are usually (1) you are less likely to get scholarships and your overall admission chances are reduced; (2) your GPA is at least as important as a normal applicant, since it will still get factored into the school's medians; and (3) a best case scenario is that your GMAT/GRE score is treated like an LSAT score with an equivalent "percentile" (i.e., a GMAT score of 730 is ~95 percentile, which would be like a 168 on the LSAT).

Put another way, I think the best you could hope for is to treated similar to an applicant with a 3.4/168. But an applicant with a 3.4/168 would have an extremely difficult time getting into the schools you named (or any T14 school for that matter). The GPA is just too low, and your test score isn't high enough to compensate for it. The fact that you have a quantitative background and a graduate degree are "soft" factors that cut in your favor (and you could consider writing a diversity statement, with the understanding that you won't get the same boost that an "underrepresented" minority might), but Law School is primarily a numbers game.

That said, you can try applying anyway and just see what happens. Nobody knows exactly how schools will treat an applicant with a GMAT score, so you just take your shot and hope to get lucky. But the conventional advice would be to either (1) take the LSAT and aim for a 170+ score so that you can apply as a splitter; or (2) reevaluate if you actually need to attend a "top" law school to achieve your goals.

[nixy]

Congrats on the great LSAT. An addendum about your last semester isn’t going to make much difference - the 3.4 is what schools have to report for rankings purposes. That said, since it was your last semester (most recent grades) and it is quite a drop from the previous semester (and presumably your other grades) a brief addendum might make sense. It depends why your last semester took such a turn - if it was due to some external factor (you got sick, a family member got sick, you got evicted from housing, etc) then it’s probably worth an explanation. If it was due to senioritis or you just happened to take all the toughest courses in your major that semester, I wouldn’t draw attention to it.