Help - Admission & Employment for International Students

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FrenchMomo

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Help - Admission & Employment for International Students

Post by FrenchMomo » Fri May 08, 2020 11:20 am

Hi everyone I hope you are all doing very well!

I come here to ask for your help because I can't find the advice I am looking for anywhere regarding admissions to law schools for international students and the possibility of finding employment in the US with a law firm next.

To quickly explain my background, I am a law student in France, I will get a bachelor and a master in French business law. Besides, I speak three languages ​​(with English).

I want to do a Juris Doctor in the US because it has always been my dream (I don't want to do LLM).

Btw, I come from a persecuted minority but who are not considered URM, so I don't think I can benefit from the admissions boost.

So I have a some questions :

1) What are my chances of being admitted to a T14 with an LSAT of 170 and a CAS "Above average" evaluation ? Do you think the law schools will take into account my "atypical" background in admissions?

2) I will come with an F2 visa and use the temporary work authorization of the visa during the summers of 1L and 2L, and I have the right to work for one yeat after graduation. Do you think I could get hired by a firm that sponsors me for an H1B visa?

Thanks in advance and take care! :D
Last edited by QContinuum on Fri May 08, 2020 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Outed for anon abuse.

FrenchMomo

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Re: Help - Admission & Employment for International Students

Post by FrenchMomo » Sun May 10, 2020 12:22 pm

If you don’t have exact answers about those issues I doesn’t matter, feel free to give me your opinion

decimalsanddollars

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Re: Help - Admission & Employment for International Students

Post by decimalsanddollars » Mon May 11, 2020 2:33 pm

international-student admissions is a crap shoot, but a 170 will probably net admission to at least one T14, particularly with foreign legal education. I'd say to apply broadly and consider the significant risks and costs associated with attending American law schools. Financial aid, for example, may be difficult, and if English isn't your native language, you may face disadvantages on some law school exams.

Also note that biglaw recruitment tends to be difficult for international students, in part because law firms only have so many spots for H1B hires/sponsorship. Most employers outside of biglaw can't afford or aren't patient enough to sponsor H1B applicants. Note that most federal govt jobs aren't available to non-US citizens. Is your plan to go back to France/EU eventually? If so, would you be okay with doing that immediately after your US JD?

BrainsyK

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Re: Help - Admission & Employment for International Students

Post by BrainsyK » Mon May 11, 2020 4:38 pm

I'll only answer the question regarding employment. In my experience, students--even LLMs--from Europe have generally not really had a problem getting hired anymore than native JD students. I think that on average, the firms that they go to lower on the Vault ranking, but beyond that, I really don't see much of a difference. Maybe it's the similarity in cultures.

FrenchMomo

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Re: Help - Admission & Employment for International Students

Post by FrenchMomo » Tue May 12, 2020 4:22 am

Thank you both for these very complete answers!

Suppose I am admitted to Georgetown or UCLA, that is to say low T14's. Do you think it would be possible to consider a base salary between 150k and 180k?
I ask the question because if the law schools I am talking about only give me 30k or 50k dollars of scholarship, despite the support of my family, I would have to take a loan of at least 100,000 dollars. Because between a salary at 70k and one at 180k, repaying a loan is not the same difficulty.

Thanks to the very attractive rates of french banks I am able to take a loan at 0.5% interest rate, so it's very interesting at this level.

To answer you question, If don't get the H1B visa, because of my french citizenship, I would be able to return to France or to work in London. But even if this possibility exists, the salary is not the same. Indeed I could not be offered 90k or 100k as a base salary. It's still a good deal, but I would prefer to be able to stay in the USA to work there.

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Anon-non-anon

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Re: Help - Admission & Employment for International Students

Post by Anon-non-anon » Wed May 13, 2020 10:48 am

Salaries are bimodal. If you're in at a T14, you have a pretty good shot at big law, which means $190k starting in a major market.

If you miss that, it could be a lot lower (sub 100), but there are some jobs in between. I believe you could also make good (similar) money in London with a US JD, especially if you focus on transactional work, but not an expert in that.

Wubbles

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Re: Help - Admission & Employment for International Students

Post by Wubbles » Thu May 14, 2020 1:06 am

Anon-non-anon wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 10:48 am
Salaries are bimodal. If you're in at a T14, you have a pretty good shot at big law, which means $190k starting in a major market.

If you miss that, it could be a lot lower (sub 100), but there are some jobs in between. I believe you could also make good (similar) money in London with a US JD, especially if you focus on transactional work, but not an expert in that.
I would also note that Georgetown and UCLA do not fall within the category of T14s likely to land OP at a high-paying firm.

FrenchMomo

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Re: Help - Admission & Employment for International Students

Post by FrenchMomo » Thu May 14, 2020 3:47 am

Thank you for your answers!

Regarding my situation (if it matters), what would be the lowest t14 that could land me at a high-paying job ?

Do you think that my french legal education would be an advantage over other candidates at those jobs ? Or maybe it depends on the firm ?

Anon-non-anon

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Re: Help - Admission & Employment for International Students

Post by Anon-non-anon » Thu May 14, 2020 8:09 am

FrenchMomo wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 3:47 am
Thank you for your answers!

Regarding my situation (if it matters), what would be the lowest t14 that could land me at a high-paying job ?

Do you think that my french legal education would be an advantage over other candidates at those jobs ? Or maybe it depends on the firm ?
You "could' land a high-paying job from almost any law school. But if you go to a T13/T14, your chances are a lot better. I went to a T25 and got one of the high-paying jobs we're talking about. The higher up the rankings, the better your odds. As others have said, Georgetown and UCLA aren't a guarantee (but they do give better odds than the school I went to).

French education may help. Are you certified to practice in France? I'm not sure of the system, but dual certifications can definitely be useful for firms. Languages are also good. I have a friend who hustled his way to a great offer at a firm he never would have had a shot at because they worked in areas where language skills were useful (french, english, and arabic). The usefulness of would probably depend on the practice area. Capital markets, not as much. Civil lit, not as much. But international M&A or arbitration, or giant white collar investigations, that stuff is probably more useful.

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FrenchMomo

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Re: Help - Admission & Employment for International Students

Post by FrenchMomo » Fri May 15, 2020 5:09 am

Thank you very much!

When I will take the bar in the US, with my bachelor in France and my master degree I will be able to register directly to the Paris bar and will be authorized to practice in France. I think that American law firms might appreciate having a lawyer with a double background like mine.

I think I will take the risk, because whatever happens with the H1B visa, I could always practice in a firm in London as you said until I would be able to find another (or the same US firm) that will send again the application for the H1B lottery.

Just one last question, a bit technical.

Let's say that I'm hired in a random big law firm "X" which has a branch in France for example. Let's admit that I don't win the H1B lottery, and that I have to return to France, and that they send me to the Paris office. Will my salary be that of French associates (70-80k) or that of Americans (190k)?

The Lsat Airbender

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Re: Help - Admission & Employment for International Students

Post by The Lsat Airbender » Fri May 15, 2020 10:02 am

FrenchMomo wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 5:09 am

Just one last question, a bit technical.

Let's say that I'm hired in a random big law firm "X" which has a branch in France for example. Let's admit that I don't win the H1B lottery, and that I have to return to France, and that they send me to the Paris office. Will my salary be that of French associates (70-80k) or that of Americans (190k)?
Depends on the firm. If there is a fully-fledged satellite office in Paris you'll be on the American payscale (or a somewhat-adjusted but similar "international" scale). But there would need to be space for you at the Paris office, which is unlikely because such office is probably like 10 people. Few big American firms even have a Paris office in the first place; if they want a European presence they set up in London or maybe Frankfurt.

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