3.71/165, not sure about T20, or regional schools. Thoughts/advice? Forum

[ALCA1920]

As the title says, I'm on a 3.7/165. I'm planning on a gap year, though.

Do I have any chance at these schools?
USC
Notre Dame
UCLA
Vanderbilt
BU

Outside of these, I was thinking UW and UC irvine. They're outside T20, and I don't know how generous they are with scholarships.

On that note, whenever I browse TLS or Reddit, I tend to see mixed reactions toward people choosing to attend regional/non-T14 schools. More often than not, OPs are warned for wanting to go to a non-T14 school without a scholarship. Even without a full ride, is it all doom and gloom if I choose to attend a regional school?

Thank you!
Pardon if my hopes/predictions are too generous, I'm not very familiar with law school admissions.

[Wubbles]

Whether it's doom and gloom depends on your career goals and actual cost of attendance.

[Dcc617]

1. Law school is not like undergrad. Outside of the T14 law schools are largely regional, so rankings matter a lot less. You've basically listed the entire country. What region do you want? Where do you have ties?

2. More specifically, what are your career goals? Do you want biglaw?

3. How many times have you taken the LSAT and how did you study?

[QContinuum]

1. Law school is not like undergrad. Outside of the T14 law schools are largely regional, so rankings matter a lot less. You've basically listed the entire country. What region do you want? Where do you have ties?

Chiming in to emphasize this. If you want to practice in MA/the Northeast, don't attend USC or UCLA. If you want to practice in SoCal, don't attend BU. Ditto for Notre Dame and the Midwest.

Vandy is actually more "portable" than the others, largely due to its BigLaw placement prowess, but even so, whether to attend Vandy turns on one's goals out of law school, how much Vandy would cost, and what other options one might be looking at.

[ALCA1920]

1. Law school is not like undergrad. Outside of the T14 law schools are largely regional, so rankings matter a lot less. You've basically listed the entire country. What region do you want? Where do you have ties?

2. More specifically, what are your career goals? Do you want biglaw?

3. How many times have you taken the LSAT and how did you study?

Thanks for reading my post and asking these, really puts things into perspective.

1.I want to practice Northwest, mainly (Oregon, WA, etc). I used to live in WA and I absolutely loved it there. I listed all those schools b/c I want the most portable JD possible to get to where I want to go, with a decent shot at biglaw. I have ties where I live right now, but I don't want to stay here.

2. Yes, I want biglaw.

3. I've taken the LSAT once. Started off at a 148 diagnostic last year, did some on-and-off studying. I used a combination the Trainer, LGB, and 7sage's curriculum. I skimmed the trainer a little, but didn't use it extensively. I relied mostly on the 7sage curriculum and burned through every PT out there in 4 months leading up to the test. Got a 165, but I was testing 167-173; I think I got burned out, and the LG for September '19 was a slap in the face. Definitely need to work on LG after that, but LR/RC performance was the same as usual (went -13 on LR, RC combined as expected. This was my usual performance, some days better than others. But LG was an uncharacteristic -7. I wouldn't get more than -2 on my practice exams leading up to test day).

[Dcc617]

Okay, that's helpful. Some more clarifying points:

Would you prefer biglaw anywhere or a legal job in Washington?

I'm asking because biglaw is obviously easiest to get in New York, and also is feasible in major secondary markets like Chicago, Houston, and LA. But most of biglaw is in NY.

However my understanding of the Seattle biglaw market (and someone with more experience should chime in) is that it's very small and very insular. They basically take T14 with ties and the top students from UW.

If your biggest goal is any legal job in Seattle/Pacific NW, then you'd probably be best off trying to get a big scholarship to UW. I think they have pretty good employment stats for Washington. However, that degree is not going to be super portable.

If your goal is biglaw anywhere, then you should probably be shooting for T14, because those are generally the schools where you are most likely to get biglaw from median. Like, it's possible to get NY biglaw from Vanderbilt, but it's much, much tougher to get from median or slightly below median.

You should read up on biglaw and placement stats from LST reports. That'll make you more informed, so you'll see the vast majority of like BU grads go to Boston and NY. I'd be surprised if any went to Seattle.

If your goal is max portability, then you'd be best off going T14, since those are the schools with the best national placement.

All that being said, you've only taken the LSAT once and scored substantially below your PT average. I think it makes the most sense to retake. A 170 (which looks like your PT average) would be a huge game changer for you and you'd likely be able to pick between some great scholarships at T14. I retook a 165 with your GPA, improved a ton, and went to HYS.

[ALCA1920]

Okay, that's helpful. Some more clarifying points:

Would you prefer biglaw anywhere or a legal job in Washington?

I'm asking because biglaw is obviously easiest to get in New York, and also is feasible in major secondary markets like Chicago, Houston, and LA. But most of biglaw is in NY.

However my understanding of the Seattle biglaw market (and someone with more experience should chime in) is that it's very small and very insular. They basically take T14 with ties and the top students from UW.

If your biggest goal is any legal job in Seattle/Pacific NW, then you'd probably be best off trying to get a big scholarship to UW. I think they have pretty good employment stats for Washington. However, that degree is not going to be super portable.

If your goal is biglaw anywhere, then you should probably be shooting for T14, because those are generally the schools where you are most likely to get biglaw from median. Like, it's possible to get NY biglaw from Vanderbilt, but it's much, much tougher to get from median or slightly below median.

You should read up on biglaw and placement stats from LST reports. That'll make you more informed, so you'll see the vast majority of like BU grads go to Boston and NY. I'd be surprised if any went to Seattle.

If your goal is max portability, then you'd be best off going T14, since those are the schools with the best national placement.

All that being said, you've only taken the LSAT once and scored substantially below your PT average. I think it makes the most sense to retake. A 170 (which looks like your PT average) would be a huge game changer for you and you'd likely be able to pick between some great scholarships at T14. I retook a 165 with your GPA, improved a ton, and went to HYS.

Really informative. T14 it is then, though I doubt 3.7/165 will get me there. I need more.

Good point on the retake bit. Makes no sense not to retake from what you're saying. I've nothing to lose (had I answered two or three more questions correctly on test day I wouldn't have written this post. Damn, the margins are fine). What you said at the end was really inspiring. Thank you!!!