T20s with a 3.1 GPA 162 LSAT Forum

[Dannerz]

I retook the LSAT for the second time yesterday but I'm not confident at all. If anything, I think I scored worse than my initial 162. Reading comprehension kicked me in the butt and I realized too late I made a crucial mistake on one of the LG games.

So these are my prospects. I might give it one last go in January (international) but I'm going to shoot out some applications this month because I need to know where I stand and, given how this retake went, I'm not banking on a significant increase. Although I'm going to do my best!

As of now, what are my chances like with schools in the T20s and T30s? I get mixed responses wherever I look so I hope someone can help me here. I'm looking at Boston College, George Washington, Washington & Lee. But I'm really not picky and tuition thankfully isn't a huge issue. Also not looking into going into Big Law. I have a strong inclination towards PI. I'm also eyeballing William & Mary, University of Washington and Wake.

Someone please tell me that it's not a lost cause and I have a chance. I think I mainly just need some guidance right now.

I don't know if it makes a difference but I'm also an Arab international student (American citizen) and female. I think my softs are pretty fluffy. I've done some media internships and volunteer work here and there but nothing too crazy.

[QContinuum]

Look up the 509 forms of the schools you're interested in. Generally, as a rough guide, you want to have both your GPA and LSAT above a school's 50%. If either your GPA or LSAT is below a school's 25%, you'll want to have the other figure above the school's 75% to compensate.

So at Boston College, for example, their median LSAT is 163 and GPA is 3.61. Their 25% LSAT is 162 and GPA is 3.44. Your GPA is substantially below their 25%, and your LSAT is right at their 25%. I don't think you have a strong chance of getting into BC. (That's not to say zero chance, of course, but the odds aren't good.)

You can do the analysis yourself for the other schools on your list. But just off the top of my head, with a 3.1 GPA, you really need a much higher LSAT to compensate and get you into a good law school with decent merit aid.

Which region are you interested in practicing in, post-graduation? Law schools are generally regional outside the T20, so if you want to practice on the West Coast, you shouldn't attend school in the East (and vice versa).

[Dannerz]

Look up the 509 forms of the schools you're interested in. Generally, as a rough guide, you want to have both your GPA and LSAT above a school's 50%. If either your GPA or LSAT is below a school's 25%, you'll want to have the other figure above the school's 75% to compensate.

So at Boston College, for example, their median LSAT is 163 and GPA is 3.61. Their 25% LSAT is 162 and GPA is 3.44. Your GPA is substantially below their 25%, and your LSAT is right at their 25%. I don't think you have a strong chance of getting into BC. (That's not to say zero chance, of course, but the odds aren't good.)

You can do the analysis yourself for the other schools on your list. But just off the top of my head, with a 3.1 GPA, you really need a much higher LSAT to compensate and get you into a good law school with decent merit aid.

Which region are you interested in practicing in, post-graduation? Law schools are generally regional outside the T20, so if you want to practice on the West Coast, you shouldn't attend school in the East (and vice versa).

Thank you for your input!

Right now, I'm looking mainly at Boston, Virgnia, DC, California and maybe Colorado. But I'm finding it difficult to gage whether these schools I might have a chance to are worth going to if I want to practice regionally. I've tried to research but the answer is generally "your life will suck unless you go to a T14." For example, I'm eyeballing George Mason, Cali Davis, Colorado Boulder and Northeastern as schools I'm a little more confident about getting into. But whether these are good choices for regional practice has been hard for me to ascertain. I'd appreciate any feedback.

Schools I'd love to get into with my stats would be in the leagues of Wake, Boston College or U of Washington. I just don't know if it's even worth applying with my odds.

Boston University, Notre Dame, Boston College, George Washington and Washington & Lee being my "reach for the stars" choices. I'm retaking next month and HOPEFULLY if I do better, I'll apply to these.

[QContinuum]

I don't think the T13/T20 are the only law schools worth attending. I do think one should do diligence on employment numbers before applying (and this is even true when comparing schools within the T13/T20).

Look up each school's ABA employment summaries (don't use their self-reported stats, as these are often incomplete/misleading). Look at what % of their class is in full-time, long-term bar passage-required employment. Don't count "JD Advantage" jobs, as these are jobs that don't require a law degree (so why would you go to law school for them?). And don't count short-term jobs either, to be conservative (we don't know whether any of those short-term jobs will eventually lead to long-term employment).

So again for BC, we see that 79.4% of their class of 2017 found full-time, long-term bar passage-required employment. So there's a ~20% chance of not landing a legal job out of BC. Do this analysis for the schools you're interested in, and weigh whether you think the odds are worth investing 3 years of your life and however much $. You should assume that you'll be a median student in law school - i.e., don't assume you'll be in the top third of the class or whatever, as it's impossible to accurately predict law school performance ex ante.

Also, this is often reflected in the employment numbers already, but as a general rule, outside the T13/T20 it's better to attend law school in a large market than one in a tiny market. All else being equal, I think it'd be advantageous to be in Boston or NYC or what have you, rather than some small college town in the middle of nowhere. Being in a large market facilitates networking and internships during law school.

[Dannerz]

Thank you sooo much! I've been browsing forums for days and days and days and your comment is probably the first I've seen to actually offer productive advice for someone looking outside the T14s.

I will definitely do all of that. I appreciate it, thank you!

[QContinuum]

Thank you sooo much! I've been browsing forums for days and days and days and your comment is probably the first I've seen to actually offer productive advice for someone looking outside the T14s.

I will definitely do all of that. I appreciate it, thank you!

Happy to help. Best of luck and feel free to ask any more questions as they arise.