3.1 UGPA and 167 LSAT: Georgetown ED? Forum

[ykim435]

I was an engineering major and graduated in 2015. An upward trend in GPA but ended up with ~3.1 LSDAS GPA. I was roughly 50% for my graduating class, according to CAS.
My highest official LSAT score on record is 167. I am an international student. (Just to be clear, I went to undergrad in the US) I am an Asian, so I will not be considered URM.
I have been mostly studying for the LSAT full time after graduation, that I don't really have a good resume. I will probably have some more stuff on the resume by fall, but probably nothing impressive for law school standards.

I am thinking about applying to Georgetown ED this fall.
Would this be a good idea? Or would it be wise for me to use the ED card somewhere else? If so, what school would you recommend that I apply with ED this fall?
I am looking at the stats from this year, and I don't think I would have much of a chance at Georgetown. At the same time, I know that many of them applied with regular and probably not all of them applied early in the cycle?

I am not really worried too much about the $$$. I would much prefer to attend a better law school than to receive a scholarship at some other place.

Thanks in advance for all of your responses/inputs

[totesTheGoat]

By and large, ED isn't recommended except in a few circumstances. I don't think this fits those circs.

What do you want to do with a law degree? Patents?

[hoos89]

Are you not concerned about law school cost because someone else is paying or because you don't think you care about your ultimate loan balance? If the latter, then I'd urge you to reconsider. $325k+ of student loans at graduation is an insanely high burden to bear.

Georgetown is overpriced and doesn't really place much better than other schools in the 14-20 range, and places much worse than schools in the 1-13 range. Schools that you could potentially get scholarships from like WUSTL aren't much of a drop in employment odds (and Vanderbilt had better placement in c/o 2017 than Georgetown).

That said...your chances of getting into Georgetown or any T13 school with 3.1/167 are slim at best. You need to add probably 3 points on your LSAT to have a realistic shot at a T13 school.

[ykim435]

By and large, ED isn't recommended except in a few circumstances. I don't think this fits those circs.

What do you want to do with a law degree? Patents?

What would be those crics? I am thinking about doing patents, but I am also open to other fields of law as well. Still doing my research. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions.

[ykim435]

Are you not concerned about law school cost because someone else is paying or because you don't think you care about your ultimate loan balance? If the latter, then I'd urge you to reconsider. $325k+ of student loans at graduation is an insanely high burden to bear.

Georgetown is overpriced and doesn't really place much better than other schools in the 14-20 range, and places much worse than schools in the 1-13 range. Schools that you could potentially get scholarships from like WUSTL aren't much of a drop in employment odds (and Vanderbilt had better placement in c/o 2017 than Georgetown).

That said...your chances of getting into Georgetown or any T13 school with 3.1/167 are slim at best. You need to add probably 3 points on your LSAT to have a realistic shot at a T13 school.

I am not concerned about law school cost because some other people are paying for them and they have told me that they would much prefer if I went to a better school--even if they need to spend more money.

I did some research on my end after you have told me about these stats, and I could see where you are coming from. But, I am not really looking to retake the LSAT to add a couple more points. I have started from mid 140s and come thus far. My goal was 165 and I have exceeded my goal. Plus, I don't think it is realistic for me to expect to score 170+. I am sure it is possible but I am not willing to take another year or two of my life
to study LSAT. At the same time, I am not expecting to attend schools in the T13.

According to my research, ED could help my application in some law schools and Georgetown seemed to be one of them--so I just wanted to know if that would be a good idea or not. From the two responses that I have received, it seems like it may not be the best option.

Thanks for taking the time to respond

[totesTheGoat]

By and large, ED isn't recommended except in a few circumstances. I don't think this fits those circs.

What do you want to do with a law degree? Patents?

What would be those crics? I am thinking about doing patents, but I am also open to other fields of law as well. Still doing my research. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions.

1) Money is no object (you or your family is obscenely wealthy)
2) Northwestern and maybe one or two other schools give scholarships with their ED acceptances

The reason ED is so frowned upon is because they know they've got you. You're committed to either paying them or sitting out the cycle, so they are extremely stingy with the scholarships (if you get one at all).

If you want to know more about patent law, don't hesitate to ask. I'm a patent prosecution attorney, and there are a few patent litigation attorneys who comment on a regular basis.

[hoos89]

I am not concerned about law school cost because some other people are paying for them and they have told me that they would much prefer if I went to a better school--even if they need to spend more money.

I did some research on my end after you have told me about these stats, and I could see where you are coming from. But, I am not really looking to retake the LSAT to add a couple more points. I have started from mid 140s and come thus far. My goal was 165 and I have exceeded my goal. Plus, I don't think it is realistic for me to expect to score 170+. I am sure it is possible but I am not willing to take another year or two of my life
to study LSAT. At the same time, I am not expecting to attend schools in the T13.

According to my research, ED could help my application in some law schools and Georgetown seemed to be one of them--so I just wanted to know if that would be a good idea or not. From the two responses that I have received, it seems like it may not be the best option.

Thanks for taking the time to respond

You can always apply this cycle and try for a couple more points on the November administration. As I said previously...your chances at GULC aren't great. 167 / 3.1 most likely means somewhere like WUSTL, Notre Dame, GWU or Fordham. You do have a decent shot at Texas and Vanderbilt, though.

You came from the mid-140s all the way to 167. Why do you think 2 more points isn't doable? If you've really taken all the practice tests and truly feel like you've maxed out okay, but if not...169 gives you a pretty good shot at Michigan, UVA, Northwestern, GULC, and, to a lesser extent, Penn.

[ykim435]

By and large, ED isn't recommended except in a few circumstances. I don't think this fits those circs.

What do you want to do with a law degree? Patents?

What would be those crics? I am thinking about doing patents, but I am also open to other fields of law as well. Still doing my research. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions.

1) Money is no object (you or your family is obscenely wealthy)
2) Northwestern and maybe one or two other schools give scholarships with their ED acceptances

The reason ED is so frowned upon is because they know they've got you. You're committed to either paying them or sitting out the cycle, so they are extremely stingy with the scholarships (if you get one at all).

If you want to know more about patent law, don't hesitate to ask. I'm a patent prosecution attorney, and there are a few patent litigation attorneys who comment on a regular basis.

I thought them knowing that they've got me was precisely why I would have a higher chance of acceptance if I applied ED. But, I can see your point. Money does matter and making the commitment to attend their school could only jeopardize me.

[ykim435]

By and large, ED isn't recommended except in a few circumstances. I don't think this fits those circs.

What do you want to do with a law degree? Patents?

What would be those crics? I am thinking about doing patents, but I am also open to other fields of law as well. Still doing my research. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions.

1) Money is no object (you or your family is obscenely wealthy)
2) Northwestern and maybe one or two other schools give scholarships with their ED acceptances

The reason ED is so frowned upon is because they know they've got you. You're committed to either paying them or sitting out the cycle, so they are extremely stingy with the scholarships (if you get one at all).

If you want to know more about patent law, don't hesitate to ask. I'm a patent prosecution attorney, and there are a few patent litigation attorneys who comment on a regular basis.

oh and thank you so much for all of your insights

[ykim435]

I am not concerned about law school cost because some other people are paying for them and they have told me that they would much prefer if I went to a better school--even if they need to spend more money.

I did some research on my end after you have told me about these stats, and I could see where you are coming from. But, I am not really looking to retake the LSAT to add a couple more points. I have started from mid 140s and come thus far. My goal was 165 and I have exceeded my goal. Plus, I don't think it is realistic for me to expect to score 170+. I am sure it is possible but I am not willing to take another year or two of my life
to study LSAT. At the same time, I am not expecting to attend schools in the T13.

According to my research, ED could help my application in some law schools and Georgetown seemed to be one of them--so I just wanted to know if that would be a good idea or not. From the two responses that I have received, it seems like it may not be the best option.

Thanks for taking the time to respond

You can always apply this cycle and try for a couple more points on the November administration. As I said previously...your chances at GULC aren't great. 167 / 3.1 most likely means somewhere like WUSTL, Notre Dame, GWU or Fordham. You do have a decent shot at Texas and Vanderbilt, though.

You came from the mid-140s all the way to 167. Why do you think 2 more points isn't doable? If you've really taken all the practice tests and truly feel like you've maxed out okay, but if not...169 gives you a pretty good shot at Michigan, UVA, Northwestern, GULC, and, to a lesser extent, Penn.

Maybe it is doable, maybe not. I have scored up to 172 on a practice test also had a couple of 169s along the way. However, for four months leading up to the test day, my average practice LSAT score was 165. Plus, I was taking tests that I had seen before, so I was not even sure if I could break 165 on the test day. I have taken all practice tests at least two or three times, and I am not sure if I could do any better. I took several prep courses, read prep books, had many sessions with more than several private tutors, and had several study-buddies along the way. But, given your advice, I scheduled to take several practice tests to see where I stand after I have spent weeks away from the LSAT. If I score 167 or higher, it may be reasonable that I consider studying for the LSAT again. Afterall, I was under so much pressure to do well and now that is somewhat out of the way, I may actually do better.

Thank you so much for all of your advice