151/2.74 UGPA: Full ride from Charlotte? Forum

[Skhakis]

Took the LSAT this past June and came up with a 151, which I know isn't the best but also isn't exactly the worst either. Pair that with my undergrad GPA of 2.74, my package isn't looking too marketable.

My alma mater didn't sit too well with me and by the end I was looking for the quickest way out, so I graduated with a BA in Interdisciplinary Studies focused on Marketing and English. The good news is that I did get accepted into a law school with my credentials. The bad news (or at least what my research has shown me) is that that law school was Charlotte School of Law. While they seem somewhat sketchy, CSL offered me a full ride guaranteed for my 3 years there, so long as my GPA remains above a 2.0 as a full time student.

My question is, assuming I do well my first year, what are my chances of transferring out with a 151 LSAT and 2.74 UGPA to a better, more reputable school? How would a decent LS GPA fit into the mix; would it override my poor UGPA significantly, or am I stuck with the 2.74 and that's all any reputable law school is going to see? I know I won't get the same amount of aid (full ride) wherever I end up so should I even consider transferring out?

Looking forward to any feedback, positive or not. I don't intend on following your advice blindly, but I am definitely interested in hearing different voices on the subject at hand.

[studyingeveryday]

I see you're new here, so let me tell you that everyone here is going to suggest that you retake the LSAT. Since it seems to be only your first take, and especially with that GPA, I strongly, strongly STRONGLY encourage you to retake. Even if you get at least a 160, or even a 165+, this will open so many new doors for you (aim for a 170 though). Especially since your GPA isn't helping you, getting a great LSAT is even more important for you. This probably means you'll have to take a year off. Are you trying to go straight from undergrad? If so, then please take a year off and spend the summer studying (go into the LSAT threads here for suggestions on how to study this time around). Even if you're older, you should wait a year and try again. (I'm assuming you don't have a job lined up post law school)

Don't go to a school with the intention of transferring. You don't know what law school will bring, how well you'll do, or if you'll do so exceptionally well that transferring will even be an option. I'm not too sure what the transferring process is like so I can't help you there, but I think they look at 1L grades, not sure if they consider undergraduate GPA.

[Barack O'Drama]

I see you're new here, so let me tell you that everyone here is going to suggest that you retake the LSAT. Since it seems to be only your first take, and especially with that GPA, I strongly, strongly STRONGLY encourage you to retake. Even if you get at least a 160, or even a 165+, this will open so many new doors for you (aim for a 170 though). Especially since your GPA isn't helping you, getting a great LSAT is even more important for you. This probably means you'll have to take a year off. Are you trying to go straight from undergrad? If so, then please take a year off and spend the summer studying (go into the LSAT threads here for suggestions on how to study this time around). Even if you're older, you should wait a year and try again. (I'm assuming you don't have a job lined up post law school)

Don't go to a school with the intention of transferring. You don't know what law school will bring, how well you'll do, or if you'll do so exceptionally well that transferring will even be an option. I'm not too sure what the transferring process is like so I can't help you there, but I think they look at 1L grades, not sure if they consider undergraduate GPA.

Everything above.

Also, Charlotte Law was just placed on probation by the ABA for such a low bar passage rate.

[20170322]

I'll go a step further. I don't think you should go to law school. Even if you added 29 points to your LSAT, you'd still be struggling to make up for your GPA. Since that's unlikely to occur, going to law school will leave you more indebted and unemployable than any of your other choices. Hell, Charlotte School of Law was just formally put on probation by the ABA.


Law school isn't for everyone-- hell, law school is a terrible idea for most people. There are boundless other professions you can enter into that will allow you a bright and happy future. Please, don't go to law school.

[mjb447]

I see you're new here, so let me tell you that everyone here is going to suggest that you retake the LSAT. Since it seems to be only your first take, and especially with that GPA, I strongly, strongly STRONGLY encourage you to retake. Even if you get at least a 160, or even a 165+, this will open so many new doors for you (aim for a 170 though). Especially since your GPA isn't helping you, getting a great LSAT is even more important for you. This probably means you'll have to take a year off. Are you trying to go straight from undergrad? If so, then please take a year off and spend the summer studying (go into the LSAT threads here for suggestions on how to study this time around). Even if you're older, you should wait a year and try again. (I'm assuming you don't have a job lined up post law school)

Don't go to a school with the intention of transferring. You don't know what law school will bring, how well you'll do, or if you'll do so exceptionally well that transferring will even be an option. I'm not too sure what the transferring process is like so I can't help you there, but I think they look at 1L grades, not sure if they consider undergraduate GPA.

Agree. You shouldn't even be thinking about transferring at this point, OP: it's an option for such a limited set of people (particularly if you're looking to make a big jump upward) that it shouldn't be part of your decision making.

[Boltsfan]

I'll go a step further. I don't think you should go to law school. Even if you added 29 points to your LSAT, you'd still be struggling to make up for your GPA. Since that's unlikely to occur, going to law school will leave you more indebted and unemployable than any of your other choices. Hell, Charlotte School of Law was just formally put on probation by the ABA.


Law school isn't for everyone-- hell, law school is a terrible idea for most people. There are boundless other professions you can enter into that will allow you a bright and happy future. Please, don't go to law school.

This is probably the right advice, but I don't see any harm in really buckling down and taking another shot at the LSAT. If you hit 170+ who knows. Realize that you probably won't, though, and that you should seriously consider the reality that the practice of law is probably not in the cards. That's ok, being a lawyer is not for everyone, and far too many people are currently making the wrong decision to go to law school.

Whatever you do, though, DO NOT go to Charlotte School of Law. That is a recipe for heartbreak and disaster. Even if its free, you can't practice without a bar card and you can't get those three years of your life back. I don't know what the rule is is North Carolina, but I would be especially cognizant of the fact that, if the school loses accreditation, you won't even be able to sit for the bar in several jurisdictions, let alone pass.

[bmathers]

Honestly, not to sound harsh, but a 151 is around average for the LSAT... if a school is going to give you a no-stip full ride for a 151, paired with a 2.74 GPA (URM or not), it's a major red-flag of why exactly they are doing that. It looks like above may be your answer for why (recently being put on probation). Sit out a cycle and retake your LSAT. Sitting out a cycle may not sound like what you want to do, but it's ultimately the right decision (I ended up sitting out last cycle - this year is a bit of a drag, but my options have already improved).

[Skhakis]

I appreciate the honest replies to my question. Honestly, the responses were pretty much what I expected. The fact that my perfectly average LSAT paired with my lackluster UGPA attained a full ride is quite suspect to say the least. It seems the recommended course of action would be to wait and retake the LSAT when I am able to, and drop the notion of attending CSL altogether.

My original concern was about the amount of emphasis schools place on my undergraduate performance, or lack thereof. When I had brought up the possibility of transferring, my question was more about how my 1L grades would display on an application amidst the UGPA and LSAT score. Would a school be more concerned with the more recent "higher" education scores rather than undergraduate flunks, or will the fact that I went to a potentially unaccredited institution even count? Or even worse, would CSL tarnish my future applications completely? I'm sorry if these questions seem outlandish or just plain stupid, but I need to understand my best course of action with the cards I've carved out. Waiting for another LSAT is an option, but it's one that I really don't want to entertain if I can bounce from CSL to another institution and pay for 2 years instead of 3-4.

Again, I'm not concerned with attaining a JD from CSL; I recognize the name has overwhelmingly negative factors within recent times. My understanding is that most 1L programs consist of roughly the same curriculum (torts, constitutional law, etc). My original thought was to go to CSL for the first year (tuition free), test how I would do in a law school environment, and transfer to an accredited university with a larger alumni base and more heritage backing the name, if all goes well.

Those that say that I shouldn't even go to law school, that's fine. It's an incredibly competitive field that isn't very lucrative for the first several years for the vast majority of people with Juror's Doctorate. I understand where you're coming from, and I appreciate the civil conversation of constructive criticism. Maybe I'm an optimist, or maybe I'm just naive, but I'm just trying to iron out a plan for what I should do next on my path to a career.

[TragicBronson]

Law schools won't place much (perhaps any, I'm not sure) weight on your ugpa and your lsat when transferring. It will be based mostly on your law school gpa and the school you're coming from. They won't necessarily blacklist you for coming from a school of particularly ill-repute, it will just be part of the sliding scale that your 1L gpa is measured on (i.e. top 1% of a t4 might be the same as top 5% from a t3. I'm making those numbers up, but you get the point).

[20170322]

Law schools won't place much (perhaps any, I'm not sure) weight on your ugpa and your lsat when transferring. It will be based mostly on your law school gpa and the school you're coming from. They won't necessarily blacklist you for coming from a school of particularly ill-repute, it will just be part of the sliding scale that your 1L gpa is measured on (i.e. top 1% of a t4 might be the same as top 5% from a t3. I'm making those numbers up, but you get the point).

But there's no reason to assume OP will be in the top 5%.

Never attend a law school you wouldn't be happy graduating from. It's like playing russian roulette with 5 bullets.

[TragicBronson]

Yeah I know. Just answering the question that was asked. On the plus side, at least it wouldn't be a huge gamble on OP's part what with the full tuition scholarship. I suppose they could just try it, and then if they don't have transfer-worthy grades drop out.

[Skhakis]

at least it wouldn't be a huge gamble on OP's part what with the full tuition scholarship. I suppose they could just try it, and then if they don't have transfer-worthy grades drop out.

This is my thought process exactly. The most I would lose would be the cost of additional loans for living expenses and time. My academic record is less-than stellar, but like most people fresh out of high school and tasting the freedoms of college (women, booze yada yada yada you all know the story), it took me a minute to get my head out of my butt and actually find what I wanted to do. Some classes didn't stick, and here I am paying for it. But so far, this deal is too enticing for me to not take that gamble and miss the opportunity see how well I would do.

[Mr. Archer]

My original thought was to go to CSL for the first year (tuition free), test how I would do in a law school environment, and transfer to an accredited university with a larger alumni base and more heritage backing the name, if all goes well.

This is a bad plan. Given your UGPA/LSAT combo, you shouldn't assume you will do well in law school. That year would be much better spent raising your LSAT and trying to get into a better school with a partial scholarship. But, if you're willing to potentially waste an entire year, a year that will not be fun because 1L sucks, that's your choice. If CSL really is enticing to you, I would say at least defer a year and try to raise your LSAT.

[TragicBronson]

Then I'll say this (not necessarily a criticism, just trying to help you think about it).

Does it have to be Charlotte? By that I mean, is there any reason you can't retake, drop like a 158 or something, and gun for a similar deal at a school that is at least ranked? I don't know where you'd be trying to transfer to, but if it's t6 or something, you need to know that literally top 1% in your class might not even do it from Charlotte. Whereas the same from a ranked school probably would. OTOH, if you're not gunning for t14, transferring will only get you more debt at a school that's still not great odds at big law (idk if you want to do big law anyway, though).

Also, if you do this (go to a ranked school for cheap) and wind up doing well but just not quite well enough to transfer up, you would still have the credentials to go get a non-biglaw job with your minimal debt.

[lymenheimer]

at least it wouldn't be a huge gamble on OP's part what with the full tuition scholarship. I suppose they could just try it, and then if they don't have transfer-worthy grades drop out.

This is my thought process exactly. The most I would lose would be the cost of additional loans for living expenses and time. My academic record is less-than stellar, but like most people fresh out of high school and tasting the freedoms of college (women, booze yada yada yada you all know the story), it took me a minute to get my head out of my butt and actually find what I wanted to do. Some classes didn't stick, and here I am paying for it. But so far, this deal is too enticing for me to not take that gamble and miss the opportunity see how well I would do.

No. Just no. Charlotte isnt worth the wasted attempt. Retake for at least wfu or unc

[Boltsfan]

I don't know where you'd be trying to transfer to, but if it's t6 or something, you need to know that literally top 1% in your class might not even do it from Charlotte.

Yeah, this is my thought too. You could literally be #1 in your class and not be able to transfer to a school that is worth attending at sticker*. I don't know what the transfer situation is like at Charlotte, but my guess is its pretty rough. My guess is that your best case scenario is a school in the middle of T1. Also, keep in mind, the odds of you being #1 in your class are incredibly low. I don't think the Russian roulette with five bullets analogy really accurately portrays this gamble. I would probably liken it to playing actual roulette, and if the ball lands in anything other than 00 you get shot in the head.

*I don't know think any law school is worth going to at sticker, but I respect the opinions of those who disagree with me on this point.

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

Took the LSAT this past June and came up with a 151, which I know isn't the best but also isn't exactly the worst either. Pair that with my undergrad GPA of 2.74, my package isn't looking too marketable.

My alma mater didn't sit too well with me and by the end I was looking for the quickest way out, so I graduated with a BA in Interdisciplinary Studies focused on Marketing and English. The good news is that I did get accepted into a law school with my credentials. The bad news (or at least what my research has shown me) is that that law school was Charlotte School of Law. While they seem somewhat sketchy, CSL offered me a full ride guaranteed for my 3 years there, so long as my GPA remains above a 2.0 as a full time student.

My question is, assuming I do well my first year, what are my chances of transferring out with a 151 LSAT and 2.74 UGPA to a better, more reputable school? How would a decent LS GPA fit into the mix; would it override my poor UGPA significantly, or am I stuck with the 2.74 and that's all any reputable law school is going to see? I know I won't get the same amount of aid (full ride) wherever I end up so should I even consider transferring out?

Looking forward to any feedback, positive or not. I don't intend on following your advice blindly, but I am definitely interested in hearing different voices on the subject at hand.

Definitely retake the LSAT.

If you're complacent with a 151, then I'm going to bet that your ability to actually transfer out of Charlotte is pretty slim. Just put in a little more work, get a 165+ (aim for 170) and MANY more doors will open for you. There's PLENTY of stories of people with a 3.0 GPA with a 175 LSAT who got into T14s, so I don't see why you feel the need to play Russian Roulette with that 151, when improving it by 15 points if VERY doable.

I know it sucks having to study for it again and going through the grueling process, but it will be worth it. If this is too much for you, then I also might have to agree with the belief that law school may not be for you.

[BigZuck]

Your diction is weird. Are you a real person with real questions or did you just make an account for funsies?

You have to be honest when you answer that question.