3.8 161 LSAT URM Forum

[CTexas1996]

Hey guys,

I am URM with a 3.9 but LSDAS of 3.8 (dual credit). I am graduating early, heavily involved in student government, the president of a major organization. I also have received significant scholarships and have even studied abroad. I was consistently scoring in the 165's on the LSAT but got a 161 on my 2nd try. (First try was a little worse). Is it too risky to take it for the 3rd time? Looking at trying to transition straight to law school. How are my chances at T25? is it too cocky to retake on the last try? (1st generation as well if that helps)

Choices included
Texas
Cornell
Duke
SMU
Baylor
Harvard (shoot for the stars)

[caitlinrw]

...

[ArtistOfManliness]

what possible risk is there in a third try?

[ArtistOfManliness]

what possible risk is there in a third try?

that was a rhetorical question. there isn't any. retake.

[ml2srosie]

It's really hard to give you an answer without knowing what kind of URM you are. Once you share that, I'd be happy to weigh in. However, I don't think there is anything wrong with re-taking.

[CTexas1996]

It's really hard to give you an answer without knowing what kind of URM you are. Once you share that, I'd be happy to weigh in. However, I don't think there is anything wrong with re-taking.

Mexican American Male!

[cdotson2]

Mexican American Male!

I would advise against graduating early and going straight through. Law schools have been trending towards student bodies with work experience. Especially for the t-14, my school only has 20% k-jd. This isn't just a law school trend either this is because of pressure from legal employers. Which means not only will you likely have a harder time getting into your choice of law school you will also have a harder time competing for a job with your fellow classmates once you get there. There is very little benefit in graduating early and a lot of potential down side (people who graduate early under perform even worse than k-jd students). I would recommend at least doing your fourth year of ug. It will help raise your GPA, will give you an additional year to fill out your resume, and just mature as a person. If you are still set on graduating this year maybe work for a year or two in-between ug and law school? Finally, you need to retake the LSAT if you want a realistic shot at getting into the higher ranked schools on your list. If you can score a 165 like you said you were hitting in PT's your chances at Duke and Cornell would likely be pretty strong. However, as it stands now I would be surprised if you got into either. Admissions arn't purely about the numbers, especially for urm's, but you still have to be in the ball park. I am a 3.7/170 Puerto Rican and I got waitlisted at columbia, nyu, chicago, uva, and Yale, and was rejected from Michigan last cycle.

[ml2srosie]

Thanks for letting me know. There is a def boost for Mexican males but it's hard to quantify as that boost varies from school to school.
I agree with everything cdotson said though. You would be better off waiting for a year or 2 to apply. Get that LSAT score up and get some WE.

[Go Nats!]

Mexican American Male!

I would advise against graduating early and going straight through. Law schools have been trending towards student bodies with work experience. Especially for the t-14, my school only has 20% k-jd. This isn't just a law school trend either this is because of pressure from legal employers. Which means not only will you likely have a harder time getting into your choice of law school you will also have a harder time competing for a job with your fellow classmates once you get there. There is very little benefit in graduating early and a lot of potential down side (people who graduate early under perform even worse than k-jd students). I would recommend at least doing your fourth year of ug. It will help raise your GPA, will give you an additional year to fill out your resume, and just mature as a person. If you are still set on graduating this year maybe work for a year or two in-between ug and law school? Finally, you need to retake the LSAT if you want a realistic shot at getting into the higher ranked schools on your list. If you can score a 165 like you said you were hitting in PT's your chances at Duke and Cornell would likely be pretty strong. However, as it stands now I would be surprised if you got into either. Admissions arn't purely about the numbers, especially for urm's, but you still have to be in the ball park. I am a 3.7/170 Puerto Rican and I got waitlisted at columbia, nyu, chicago, uva, and Yale, and was rejected from Michigan last cycle.

I disagree with this post and ml2rosie, mainly on the WE count.

I was a 165/3.6/AA male and I got into UVA Law. Yes, different URM groups get different boosts but I don't think you're out of the ballpark here for a T25. Really, I just wanted to note that I haven't seen any evidence of T14's having an increasing trend of focusing on WE or that people who graduate early underperform k-jd students in law school - I'd be interested if there's been any data on those points. Your GPA is already going to be in top tier anyway so I don't know how much you could really push it up or whether it would make a noticeable difference in your chances. I graduated early as well and did just fine in law school.

I took the LSAT four times in order to get my 165 and it was worth it - there was no way I would have gotten into a top 10 otherwise. Heck, I'm a Texan and even UT rejected me early decision with my score. I don't think you'd be accepted there. I recommend you retake.

[grades??]

Mexican American Male!

I would advise against graduating early and going straight through. Law schools have been trending towards student bodies with work experience. Especially for the t-14, my school only has 20% k-jd. This isn't just a law school trend either this is because of pressure from legal employers. Which means not only will you likely have a harder time getting into your choice of law school you will also have a harder time competing for a job with your fellow classmates once you get there. There is very little benefit in graduating early and a lot of potential down side (people who graduate early under perform even worse than k-jd students). I would recommend at least doing your fourth year of ug. It will help raise your GPA, will give you an additional year to fill out your resume, and just mature as a person. If you are still set on graduating this year maybe work for a year or two in-between ug and law school? Finally, you need to retake the LSAT if you want a realistic shot at getting into the higher ranked schools on your list. If you can score a 165 like you said you were hitting in PT's your chances at Duke and Cornell would likely be pretty strong. However, as it stands now I would be surprised if you got into either. Admissions arn't purely about the numbers, especially for urm's, but you still have to be in the ball park. I am a 3.7/170 Puerto Rican and I got waitlisted at columbia, nyu, chicago, uva, and Yale, and was rejected from Michigan last cycle.

I disagree with this post and ml2rosie, mainly on the WE count.

I was a 165/3.6/AA male and I got into UVA Law. Yes, different URM groups get different boosts but I don't think you're out of the ballpark here for a T25. Really, I just wanted to note that I haven't seen any evidence of T14's having an increasing trend of focusing on WE or that people who graduate early underperform k-jd students in law school - I'd be interested if there's been any data on those points. Your GPA is already going to be in top tier anyway so I don't know how much you could really push it up or whether it would make a noticeable difference in your chances. I graduated early as well and did just fine in law school.

I took the LSAT four times in order to get my 165 and it was worth it - there was no way I would have gotten into a top 10 otherwise. Heck, I'm a Texan and even UT rejected me early decision with my score. I don't think you'd be accepted there. I recommend you retake.

There is now substantial data about schools valuing WE more. Just go look at the class profiles of the t14 schools. Even in the last 3-4 years, there has been a significant shift in t14 schools valuing WE. Just go look at the class profiles and the class profiles from 4 years ago and compare the % of students with prior work experience. Its a drastic change.

[Go Nats!]

I was Class of 2013 so it's possible things have changed since then.

Either way, I say OP should retake with the schools he's listed and not worry about graduating early.