4.02 GPA / 172 LSAT Prospects? Forum

[acz26]

Hi guys,

I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on what my law school cycle might look like next year? Additionally relevant information would be that I'm coming from Cornell as an English major, and my softs are solid: two on-campus jobs (working 20 hours a week with a promotion), 4 years of mock trial (award at Columbia invitational), musical theater, fraternity involvement and work w/ the admissions office that resulted in national social media coverage (Businessweek/tweeted by Michelle Obama for the Reach Higher Ed campaign). Personal statement should be fine...

Any thoughts on how I'll fare with the T-14 and scholarships? How about HYS/CCN?

Thanks in advance!

[ih8makingscreennames]

Sometimes I can't tell if you guys are serious when you ask these questions.

[cbbinnyc]

Yeah, not sure if this is real or not, but, giving you the benefit of the doubt, you'll get in everywhere expect possibly Yale. Definitely should get full scholarships at several T14s. See mylsn.info

ETA: The only thing that matters in 4.02/172. Your softs are decent, but will only matter for Y/S ... S will probably admit you on numbers, Y probably won't be impressed by those softs.

[OtterLaw]

Retake!

(Am I doing this right?)

[kennethparcell]

Classic Zim

[EnderWiggin]

Will you still be in college this fall or will you be working? Your cycle would likely be a good one as a KJD, but there are plenty of good non-LS admissions reasons to get some work experience before deciding to apply to law school.

[acz26]

Will you still be in college this fall or will you be working? Your cycle would likely be a good one as a KJD, but there are plenty of good non-LS admissions reasons to get some work experience before deciding to apply to law school.

I'll definitely be going straight through.

[mudiverse]

Troll post? I swear some of you guys are either idiot savants or deliberately screwing with the community.

You have a gpa that is literally above a perfect score (god knows why some schools award above a 4.0) and an LSAT above the 95% of all test takers. How do you think you will do?

[acz26]

Troll post? I swear some of you guys are either idiot savants or deliberately screwing with the community.

You have a gpa that is literally above a perfect score (god knows why some schools award above a 4.0) and an LSAT above the 95% of all test takers. How do you think you will do?

This is by no means a troll post...I'm fully aware of my stats, and I'm not concerned about admission aside from the top 3-5 schools because they're largely crapshoots. I was trying to gauge my chances at full rides because I have no idea how they work/what stats they take. I apologize if the post came off the wrong way/if I wasn't specific enough in what I was asking; it wasn't meant to be disingenuous.

[Tls2016]

I know people with high numbers often see yield protection from schools that makes them question their admission chances. Yield protection is when the school wait lists or denies someone with great numbers because they believe that person won't ultimately enroll.
They need to keep the statistic of admits to attendees high for ranking purposes and maybe other reasons. So they wait list applicants who easily fit within their numbers.

Other people with high scores have been confused by this odd behavior of adcomms, which shows the adcomms concerns are more than just admitted the class with the best students. They need to be concerned with students who will attend if admitted.

[fliptrip]

There is a little trickiness to how things will go for you because you're going to be major YP bait. So, depending on how well you express specific interest in certain schools, you could expect all of the T-14 outside of YS or you could get WL'd at UVA and Michigan. It could even happen to you at Columbia.

Y and S are black boxes...your chances are better at S than Y, but don't count on either.

[QuentonCassidy]

...You have a gpa that is literally above a perfect score (god knows why some schools award above a 4.0) ...

Regarding the bolded, most of the time the school does not award above a 4.0, the >4 GPAs come because of the way LSAC "normalizes" them, so it is in most cases not a school-specific thing.

Anyway, as for OP: you should definitely be seeing fulls from a few places in the lower T14, ie Michigan, possibly Duke and if you can avoid YP then UVA. Admittance to everyone outside HYS is literally assured (as close as can be assured in this type of thing). Probably not Hamilton numbers at Columbia but definitely great shot for a Butler (half scholly). Chicago likes high GPAs more (whereas Columbia likes LSAT more) so who knows, maybe an outside chance at a Ruby? I'm completely unfamiliar with NYU but you would certainly be competitive for schollys there.

When it comes to HYS, you're very close to a lock for H; the only thing is that they have a fairly demonstrative bias against KJDs, but it seems to play a lesser role at the very top range of stats which you are very near/in. You have a pretty good shot at Stanford; I would say definitely better than a coin-flip. As for Yale, no idea, probably worse than a coin flip bc it's Yale but still you have great stats so if you put together a great app you have nearly as good a shot as anyone.

Long story short, you will have a great cycle, I say most likely situation is that you will face a choice between Stanford, Harvard, good money at CLS/Chi/NYU, and a handful of full schollys at lower T14s.

I would also just like to echo Ender's advice of considering working for a little while before applying, or at least checking out your options on that front.

[acz26]

I know people with high numbers often see yield protection from schools that makes them question their admission chances. Yield protection is when the school wait lists or denies someone with great numbers because they believe that person won't ultimately enroll.
They need to keep the statistic of admits to attendees high for ranking purposes and maybe other reasons. So they wait list applicants who easily fit within their numbers.

Other people with high scores have been confused by this odd behavior of adcomms, which shows the adcomms concerns are more than just admitted the class with the best students. They need to be concerned with students who will attend if admitted.

Thanks for the response! Do you have any advice on how to best avoid YP? I'm considering addendums at certain schools where I have a genuinely specific interest in an aspect of their program, but I'm not sure what else I might be able to do..

[BizBro]

I got a couple of full rides at 171 and 3.9. Though I wasn't KJD like you. Your softs are average at best. Definitely write Why X statements for anything below the t6.

[acz26]

...You have a gpa that is literally above a perfect score (god knows why some schools award above a 4.0) ...

Regarding the bolded, most of the time the school does not award above a 4.0, the >4 GPAs come because of the way LSAC "normalizes" them, so it is in most cases not a school-specific thing.

Anyway, as for OP: you should definitely be seeing fulls from a few places in the lower T14, ie Michigan, possibly Duke and if you can avoid YP then UVA. Admittance to everyone outside HYS is literally assured (as close as can be assured in this type of thing). Probably not Hamilton numbers at Columbia but definitely great shot for a Butler (half scholly). Chicago likes high GPAs more (whereas Columbia likes LSAT more) so who knows, maybe an outside chance at a Ruby? I'm completely unfamiliar with NYU but you would certainly be competitive for schollys there.

When it comes to HYS, you're very close to a lock for H; the only thing is that they have a fairly demonstrative bias against KJDs, but it seems to play a lesser role at the very top range of stats which you are very near/in. You have a pretty good shot at Stanford; I would say definitely better than a coin-flip. As for Yale, no idea, probably worse than a coin flip bc it's Yale but still you have great stats so if you put together a great app you have nearly as good a shot as anyone.

Long story short, you will have a great cycle, I say most likely situation is that you will face a choice between Stanford, Harvard, good money at CLS/Chi/NYU, and a handful of full schollys at lower T14s.

I would also just like to echo Ender's advice of considering working for a little while before applying, or at least checking out your options on that front.

This is very extensive and helpful; thank you!

[fliptrip]

I know people with high numbers often see yield protection from schools that makes them question their admission chances. Yield protection is when the school wait lists or denies someone with great numbers because they believe that person won't ultimately enroll.
They need to keep the statistic of admits to attendees high for ranking purposes and maybe other reasons. So they wait list applicants who easily fit within their numbers.

Other people with high scores have been confused by this odd behavior of adcomms, which shows the adcomms concerns are more than just admitted the class with the best students. They need to be concerned with students who will attend if admitted.

Thanks for the response! Do you have any advice on how to best avoid YP? I'm considering addendums at certain schools where I have a genuinely specific interest in an aspect of their program, but I'm not sure what else I might be able to do..

Conventional wisdom is writing extensive Why X statements for the schools you're applying to. Your plan to write an addendum indicates you're on the right track on this front. It seems that schools are catching onto this as well, so I'd advise perhaps an email or two with questions leading in and if it's practical, I'd even visit.

[RZ5646]

I'd say retake. 172 is good but doesn't match your GPA.

I disagree with the suggestion that you'll get T14 full rides. I have a similar GPA and a few more LSAT points and I've gotten great scholarships, but no fulls or named awards. Being K-JD is a disadvantage for the tippy top outcomes; you really need work experience if you want to be a strong candidate for a named full. Furthermore, your softs are closer to average than strong.

[jnwa]

I'd say retake. 172 is good but doesn't match your GPA.

I disagree with the suggestion that you'll get T14 full rides. I have a similar GPA and a few more LSAT points and I've gotten great scholarships, but no fulls or named awards. Being K-JD is a disadvantage for the tippy top outcomes; you really need work experience if you want to be a strong candidate for a named full. Furthermore, your softs are closer to average than strong.

Would echo this about K-jds (I am one). Pulled a t14 full ride but nothing from HYS. The mylsn data points with my numbers that got Harvard all had post grad work experience.

[Tls2016]

You could apply and see what you get and if not happy, get a job. I think a job could benefit you in ways other than admissions as in getting employment through OCI and just more life experience.

I think there is good advice in Spiveys thread about avoiding YP. But the reality is that schools get students who promise them they are the students first choice, no matter what, only to change their minds when the actual offers roll in and they get a better school or more money elsewhere.
There is nothing wrong with that and everyone should maximize their costs and benefits: but schools may be a bit jaded.
I think personal visits help.
Good luck. (Retake if you want and if you think you can improve.)

[acz26]

Thanks for the genuine and helpful advice, everyone! Fingers crossed...

[acz26]

Ah also, anyone have any idea how HYS might perceive a Law class that I took Pass/Fail? Unclear as to how detrimental that might be for my app...thoughts?

[WinterComing]

Your softs aren't as good as you think they are. Everyone on here says they have "above average" softs. I'd say you have very average ones. At any rate, you're going to get in to tons of great law schools.

[fliptrip]

Ah also, anyone have any idea how HYS might perceive a Law class that I took Pass/Fail? Unclear as to how detrimental that might be for my app...thoughts?

Pretty sure this won't matter at all.

[LoganCouture]

Ah also, anyone have any idea how HYS might perceive a Law class that I took Pass/Fail? Unclear as to how detrimental that might be for my app...thoughts?

Took 3 classes pass/fail...can confirm none of those schools care.

[KissMyAxe]

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