167/3.83 Chances ED Michigan Other T-14 Forum

[GFox345]

Long-time TLS lurker here. Unfortunately, I misread a rule on game 3 and made some other careless mistakes on the game section and ended up with a -9 on that section and a 167 on my first take on October 2015. I am currently studying for a December retake, but my advisor said that I should throw out applications to some of the lower T-14. My stats are:

3.83 (Top 7ish% at University of Chicago, currently ranked 4th on USNWR college rankings)
A much-lamented 167
1 Year WE at a V10 Firm post-grad
4 Years WE during summers/academic year (remotely) during College in Manufacturing Business (one of the largest plants of its kind in the U.S.) During my time there, I helped reduce emissions and paper usage, introduced systems that helped the business survive the recent recession. My advisor has informed me that this may count in the eyes of some schools - particularly NW. Thoughts?

Before you guys swarm me, I did read the instructions thread, and I have thoroughly lurked LSN. The results for my numbers on my.lsn.info say that I am 50/50 at UVA (which I doubt as I am below both medians), 50% at Berkeley which seems high, 71% at Duke (I received a PT invite and applied yesterday), 60% at Michigan (First choice, considering ED), 80% at NW (second-choice, depends on whether WE is legitimate to them, interviewed here on 9/21 and it went very well), 90% at Cornell I think I should definitely be in here, and 60% at Georgetown (wtf?). It then says I am 100% on down.

My issue with this data is that the sample sizes are just so damn small. The largest was 10 applicants over 3 years, which is lacking at best.

Also, I've been keeping up with LSAT taker numbers and notices that they have increased at a rate of about 7% for both the June and October tests.

Can I even expect that trends from last year will be predictive given this uptick in takers?

Generally, I am opposed to sitting out a cycle, and I will got to the best school that I get into this cycle.

Currently have apps out at:

Duke (PT)
Michigan
Northwestern
Cornell
Georgetown
Vandy
WUTSL
Ohio State

I would very much appreciate the chance to start a dialogue about all this. I welcome genuine thoughts and single-word "retake" posts.

Love you guys, thanks.

EDIT: I would appreciate suggestions regarding studying for the December retake. I must admit that I haven't really done much of anything since the October test because my score was due to stupid mistakes. I was PTing consistently at 169-172 (my RC was better than average on October 2015). How did you guys study for your retake? With a 167 in the bank and my GPA, I am having a hard time going back to hard core study despite the fact that I realize that just a few points could make a serious difference because I would honestly be fine with attending any of the T-14 schools that I applied to. With my numbers Cornell seems very likely, and I love Ithaca as well as Cornell's employment outcomes.

[NotASpecialSnowflake]

How did you guys study for your retake? With a 167 in the bank and my GPA, I am having a hard time going back to hard core study despite the fact that I realize that just a few points could make a serious difference because I would honestly be fine with attending any of the T-14 schools that I applied to.

I know you are a longtime lurker, but if you haven't already, check out noodleyone's retake guide. Also, what materials did you use? I recommend the powerscore bible for logic game and the LSAT trainer for LR and RC.

You may get into Cornell with those numbers. But a few LSAT points makes a huge difference. I had a 3.85 and a 167 and I didn't get into Cornell. I retook the LSAT and got a 170. I applied to Cornell again and got a $150k scholarship.

A few points can get you literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in scholarship money. I'd recommend giving your retake your best effort. Keep taking PTs and push yourself. Taking the sections with 30 minutes of time helped me a lot come test day.

I would send your apps in ASAP and let them know you are taking the LSAT in December. Most schools don't evaluate your applications until your score comes in. Start studying again, take the LSAT, get a 170+ and get a great scholarship.

[oreomilkshake]

deleted.

[Clemenceau]

A solid retake would make such a big difference for your prospects that there's really no excuse not to retake.

I retook (twice) and honestly its not that bad. Just work on what went wrong and any other weaknesses, and do some timed PTs a few times a week. You aren't starting from scratch, just fine-tuning.

[flawedargument]

OP:

It sounds like you scored 3-4 points below your PT average. That's not uncommon whatsoever. If I were you I would register for December, take 3 PT's a week, and reevaluate around Dec. 1st with 12-13 PT's under your belt. If your PT average has gone up (i.e., from 170 to 173, which is quite possible), absolutely retake for a 169+. If your average has stayed the same or gone down, cancel, ride out the admissions cycle out, and see what happens. What do you stand to lose? $150 registering and the hassle of studying for four damn weeks. If you can't stomach that, don't go to law school. (That's obviously hyperbole... but seriously, though, because...) What do you stand to gain? Favorable admissions outcomes, and tens of thousands of extra dollars in scholarship money.

P.S. - If I were really you, I would not be adverse to gunning for mid-170s or higher and sitting out a cycle. You're going to have 30+ years to work as a lawyer. One year won't matter that much in the long run. Your school, and your performance at that school, stay with you like shit from Vegas. Forever. And lawyers care a lot, perhaps unreasonably so, about pedigree.

You can find something awesome to do if you have to wait a year. Just really, really think about this.

All that said, you're going to get into at least one of Michigan, Northwestern, Cornell with the stats you have. Maybe all three.

But just think about how much $$$ they would pay you to study a little bit harder.

Hope this helps.