3.25 with 3.96 final year, 175 - T14? Forum

[PROUD LION]

Hey all, I browsed the board a bit but I didn't see any stories extremely similar to mine to give me an idea of my chances

Double majored between two technical majors (average GPA at the university of 3.3 and 3.4, to my knowledge nobody doubles in them) at a top 10 undergraduate university. was addicted to drugs my first 3 years and did the bare minimum to coast to a 3.15 or so, got clean and got all A's except for one A- in my final year to graduate with a 3.25. Obviously under these circumstances I can't write a GPA addendum.

Starting a job at a tech startup this fall but got interested toward the end of UG in the possibility of law school so I took the June LSAT and got a 175. I actually took several PTs and averaged in the 178 range, so I'm also wondering if I should retake.

I guess I'm mostly a standard splitter with a lower than usual GPA, but I've never met anyone with an upward trend as sharp as mine. I'm sure I have no chance at HYS no matter what, but could I land somewhere in the T14? If I got a 178-180, what about CCN?

[jumbocolumbo]

http://mylsn.info/wwldjc/
Looks like you have a good shot at most of the T-14 with that killer lsat. You should be in for a good cycle. I don't know how much a retake will help you, but if you're SURE you can tack on a few more points it couldn't hurt.

[landshoes]

Maybe? What are the average GPAs of each of the majors you did?

You just have to apply and see what happens; if you're truly a snowflake, we can't really predict your chances.

If you're not a snowflake, you can get a decent idea based on each school's medians and mylsn, but you should apply to all of them anyway.

edit: to do a punctuate

[Well Hung Jury]

Other instances of someone with your stats will be rare, thus mylsn and such may not be as reliable as looking at the 25th, 50th, and 75th percentiles of GPA and LSAT scores to get a rough idea of where you can snag an acceptance. You may get small $ from lower T-14s for the LSAT, but your GPA falls below their 25th. I'd say write a very compelling PS and you may have a better shot.

What are your goals? Will you be taking out loans for your potential law school attendance?

[Tiago Splitter]

3.25/175 is pretty much guaranteed to get in to multiple T-14's. NYU likely, Columbia possible. Retake not likely to make much difference but not gonna hurt you.

[PROUD LION]

thanks all for the replies!

http://mylsn.info/wwldjc/
Looks like you have a good shot at most of the T-14 with that killer lsat. You should be in for a good cycle. I don't know how much a retake will help you, but if you're SURE you can tack on a few more points it couldn't hurt.

I am just worried that the mylsn results give a very small sample size. I can expand a bit around my score and GPA but that changes the spread a decent amount.

Maybe? What are the average GPAs of each of the majors you did?

You just have to apply and see what happens; if you're truly a snowflake, we can't really predict your chances.

If you're not a snowflake, you can get a decent idea based on each school's medians and mylsn, but you should apply to all of them anyway.

edit: to do a punctuate

Average GPAs in the majors I did were 3.3 and 3.4. I don't think I'm a snowflake but I guess I haven't seen many splitters with this low of a GPA. the schools' medians don't tell me much since I'm probably in the top/bottom 10% of LSAT and GPA for most schools at which I have a shot, and mylsn gives me a tiny sample size.

Other instances of someone with your stats will be rare, thus mylsn and such may not be as reliable as looking at the 25th, 50th, and 75th percentiles of GPA and LSAT scores to get a rough idea of where you can snag an acceptance. You may get small $ from lower T-14s for the LSAT, but your GPA falls below their 25th. I'd say write a very compelling PS and you may have a better shot.

What are your goals? Will you be taking out loans for your potential law school attendance?

Should I address the fact that I seriously got my life together between my 3rd and 4th years of college, or leave that out? I don't have any sort of compelling story of mental illness, full time occupation, domestic abuse, or anything like that going for me. I just got tired of not putting effort into my life, of relying on a high to replace the satisfaction of hard work, etc. I wrote a personal statement to that effect to land the job at the startup that I got, but applying to law school is a ballgame to which I am still relatively new and green. I'd like to eventually get into patent law or contract law but I guess I'm still unsure. I'm fortunate enough to not be in a position of needing to take loans for law school.

3.25/175 is pretty much guaranteed to get in to multiple T-14's. NYU likely, Columbia possible. Retake not likely to make much difference but not gonna hurt you.

thanks, your confidence buoys me a lot. I thought it might have been too late for me.




to everyone: How should I craft a personal statement given the circumstances I've laid out? I got the impression it wasn't worth it at all to address my low GPA and that the upward trend would speak for itself, but I'm not so sure anymore. I figure for patent law a year's worth of work experience in silicon valley should be quite helpful as a soft. I also consistently worked in experimental physics labs as an undergraduate, should I mention this? I guess I have constantly been on the edge of innovation, maybe I can try to make a profile like that.

[rnoodles]

0L here, so take this with a grain of salt but I'd say the only places that you'll really have trouble being admitted to (barring YP, of course) may be YS.

You definitely should get offers from some of the lower T14, and an upward trend in your GPA (esp. one that's near a 4.0 in the final year) will work favorably in your case along with your WE and stellar LSAT.

Edit: Good luck, OP!!

[barley]

Nothing to add, but I wanted to say congrats on getting clean and good luck with your cycle!

[landshoes]

Disclaimer: I'm not an admissions committee person and a lot of this is speculation and based on what I've read from admissions blogs, this site, etc.

It's important to note that admissions committees are well aware that some majors are harder than others. Their hands are somewhat tied by the US News rankings and their desire to maintain/improve their medians, but once you're below a given median, they start looking at other factors that indicate that you'll do well in law school, not be a huge pain in the ass, and become employed afterwards (a key factor because it also contributes to US News and helps with recruitment). Your job is to make them think that they will be glad that they admitted you despite you not doing shit for their median(s).

You already have a leg up because you did so well on the LSAT, so that's one thing you have going for you. Having done decently well at a double hard-science major and getting a good job afterwards are two more things that are going to make them look favorably on you compared to other candidates with similar stats. You have gotten a competitive job once, and that's information they don't have about a K-JD. They might still prefer candidates with better stats, but not always. Again, this is a situation in which you are just going to have to apply and focus on your strengths (rigor of undergrad program, employability, etc.) and see what happens. The process is weird and unpredictable, but you do have sufficient reason to believe that you have a shot at basically any program except perhaps Y/S. Even those, who knows, and I'd certainly shoot an application to both of those schools in your position.

I would, personally, absolutely not reference the drug use. The personal statement goes to C & F, IIRC, and that's something I would rather just avoid. A good, solid, well-written letter about maturing in undergrad that is backed up with transcripts and letters of rec would be fine, I'm sure.

Lots of people are immature in undergrad. Admissions committees recognize this. If you are able to get your shit together and take responsibility for it, it's not a major problem. If anything, recognizing that you aren't perfect and working on yourself are traits that indicate maturity and an ability to stick with something even though you're not already perfect at it. This is a key skill for success in law school and on the job market.

tl;dr : just apply; having fucked up in undergrad is not going to kill you if you act like an adult about it; and you do, in fact, have a shot.

[Well Hung Jury]

Should I address the fact that I seriously got my life together between my 3rd and 4th years of college, or leave that out? I don't have any sort of compelling story of mental illness, full time occupation, domestic abuse, or anything like that going for me. I just got tired of not putting effort into my life, of relying on a high to replace the satisfaction of hard work, etc. I wrote a personal statement to that effect to land the job at the startup that I got, but applying to law school is a ballgame to which I am still relatively new and green. I'd like to eventually get into patent law or contract law but I guess I'm still unsure. I'm fortunate enough to not be in a position of needing to take loans for law school.

to everyone: How should I craft a personal statement given the circumstances I've laid out? I got the impression it wasn't worth it at all to address my low GPA and that the upward trend would speak for itself, but I'm not so sure anymore. I figure for patent law a year's worth of work experience in silicon valley should be quite helpful as a soft. I also consistently worked in experimental physics labs as an undergraduate, should I mention this? I guess I have constantly been on the edge of innovation, maybe I can try to make a profile like that.

A large number of people get their lives together during the last few years of college. I would say that would raise the question of "so what?" in the school's mind since yours was no different than anyone else who got their life together during that time frame. If you will be able to pay sticker and not worry about it for any school, just go to the highest ranked school you get into that gives you the best chances of accomplishing those goals. If you're dead set on patent law, and majored and have experience in the technical field, you may consider sitting for the patent bar. That sounds much more appealing based on your goals, since you would be able to forgo the massive expense of law school unless you also wanted to get into something requiring a JD.

Based on your question to everyone, sit for the patent bar. That will be a bigger "soft" IME. It will also show commitment to the field if you really want to get further into patent law and become an actual patent attorney upon graduation from law school.