4.11 GPA, 174 LSAT, worried about softs Forum

sottovoce · Post by **sottovoce** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:29 pm

Hey Everyone,

I go to a top flagship public school and am about to graduate with either a 4.11 or a 4.08 LSAC GPA and about a 3.97 normal GPA, with degrees in History and Political Science. I had a few questions. Does that much of a GPA over 4.0 make much of a difference to adcoms?

I managed to get a 174 on the LSAT, but was a bit worried about my softs, which are weak. I interned for my state's Senator, worked at a small public defender shop, started a political party to run in student government elections, participated as an assembly member, and not much else. I will probably have one good LOR and one so-so one. Even with the GPA and the LSAT, would it be tough to get into a school like Yale or Stanford with these softs? How long should I take off in order to build these softs up?

shump92 · Post by **shump92** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:33 pm

Take as much time off as you think you personally need. Softs are really the most important in the context of your overall narrative. Prestigious or select softs help give your narrative more credibility, but plenty of people with more general softs know how to present them all coherently. You have the numbers though so you have a real shot.

cdotson2 · Post by **cdotson2** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:36 pm

#flame

but just in case. Why don't you apply this cycle and see what happens. If you are unlucky then take some time and build up WE then apply again.

there is no reason you should not apply this cycle.

malleus discentium · Post by **malleus discentium** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:38 pm

Those are weak softs for YS. But people do get into YS with weak softs and good numbers, so maybe you'll get lucky.
As for taking time off, you should do that anyway. Not to "build" softs, but just because it's a good idea. If you can find something that's a good soft to spend that time off doing, well, then that's even better.

sottovoce · Post by **sottovoce** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:46 pm

Thanks for all the quick replies, guys. Will the 4.11 gpa help me significantly because its over a 4.0?

CanadianWolf · Post by **CanadianWolf** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:54 pm

In the practice of law, commonsense is a very valued characteristic.

P.S. "I interned with my state's Senator."

ndirish2010 · Post by **ndirish2010** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:06 pm

This is either a flame or a horribly-executed humblebrag.

Smoking Gunner · Post by **Smoking Gunner** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:12 pm

cdotson2 wrote:#flame

sottovoce · Post by **sottovoce** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:27 pm

It's neither. What makes this seem like a flame? Thanks to those who have replied thus far.

benwyatt · Post by **benwyatt** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:38 pm

Post removed.

OhBoyOhBortles · Post by **OhBoyOhBortles** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:38 pm

malleus discentium wrote:Those are weak softs for YS. But people do get into YS with weak softs and good numbers, so maybe you'll get lucky.
As for taking time off, you should do that anyway. Not to "build" softs, but just because it's a good idea. If you can find something that's a good soft to spend that time off doing, well, then that's even better.

basedvulpes · Post by **basedvulpes** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:43 pm

Post removed.

ndirish2010 · Post by **ndirish2010** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:45 pm

sottovoce wrote:It's neither. What makes this seem like a flame? Thanks to those who have replied thus far.

If it's not a flame, then it's by definition a humblebrag, or just a flat out brag. You have a 4.0/174, you're gonna be fine.

shump92 · Post by **shump92** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:55 pm

Edit: Sorry if I incorrectly thought the "flame" was directed at me and not OP.

OP you should watch the risk of seeming pretentious. You are very much in the 1% for applicants, so don't belittle your numbers.

Nathanael · Post by **Nathanael** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:56 pm

I had a 4.0/174 and comparable softs and did not get YS. They are hard to land as a KJD.

edit: also, I can't imagine being over a 4.0 will give you any substantial boost

somedude · Post by **somedude** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:03 pm

sottovoce wrote:Hey Everyone,

I go to a top flagship public school and am about to graduate with either a 4.11 or a 4.08 LSAC GPA and about a 3.97 normal GPA, with degrees in History and Political Science. I had a few questions. Does that much of a GPA over 4.0 make much of a difference to adcoms?

I managed to get a 174 on the LSAT, but was a bit worried about my softs, which are weak. I interned for my state's Senator, worked at a small public defender shop, started a political party to run in student government elections, participated as an assembly member, and not much else. I will probably have one good LOR and one so-so one. Even with the GPA and the LSAT, would it be tough to get into a school like Yale or Stanford with these softs? How long should I take off in order to build these softs up?

You "can" get admitted to YLS (I went there and some in my cohort had similar sounding applications), though you're right that it would have raised the probability had you attended an ivy league school, travelled to Kenya to make a documentary when you were 19, and got thrown in prison there for 3 months. I'm no expert, but it seems to me you'd have to bungle your personal statement to not be admitted to at least one of YLS, HLS, SLS...your numbers are just very solid. Best of luck.

jbagelboy · Post by **jbagelboy** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:27 pm

Lol, of course you are.

koalacity · Post by **koalacity** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:58 pm

sottovoce wrote:Thanks for all the quick replies, guys. Will the 4.11 gpa help me significantly because its over a 4.0?

Anecdotally, it won't make any difference at all.

YS are always a crapshoot, and your softs are definitely weak by their standards. If you're a good interviewer, you're probably in at HLS, though being KJD will hurt you. FWIW, I had 4.18/180 and was WL->admit at SLS and WL (I withdrew after being waitlisted, so no idea if I would've gotten in off the WL or not) at YLS. I had 2 years of average WE and probably marginally better softs. I had one very strong academic rec, one generic academic rec, and one strong employer rec-I think LORs matter more than TLS conventional wisdom thinks they do at YS.

You should take time off. As others have said, this is not solely-or even primarily-for admissions purposes, but rather because it's a good life decision (and will help your employability in law school).

BasilHallward · Post by **BasilHallward** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:01 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DHFqAouFFQ

Mack.Hambleton · Post by **Mack.Hambleton** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:20 pm

koalacity wrote:
sottovoce wrote:Thanks for all the quick replies, guys. Will the 4.11 gpa help me significantly because its over a 4.0?
Anecdotally, it won't make any difference at all.

YS are always a crapshoot, and your softs are definitely weak by their standards. If you're a good interviewer, you're probably in at HLS, though being KJD will hurt you. FWIW, I had 4.18/180 and was WL->admit at SLS and WL (I withdrew after being waitlisted, so no idea if I would've gotten in off the WL or not) at YLS. I had 2 years of average WE and probably marginally better softs. I had one very strong academic rec, one generic academic rec, and one strong employer rec-I think LORs matter more than TLS conventional wisdom thinks they do at YS.

You should take time off. As others have said, this is not solely-or even primarily-for admissions purposes, but rather because it's a good life decision (and will help your employability in law school).

This although H has become more of a crapshoot for KJDs recently

sottovoce · Post by **sottovoce** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:36 pm

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I am most likely going to apply this cycle, see how it plays out and then wait a year or two to see if I can nab HLS/YLS/SLS if I don't get into any of them. I've gotten lots of great replies on what to do and have posted another brainstorm topic to figure out ways to make up for late softs.

Really don't want to sound like a douchebag here (judging from the other posts, already failed) -- but can anyone give me more information on whether the difference between a 4.08 or 4.11 matters? I can pursue a grades claim but don't want to if it's not worth the trouble.

sottovoce · Post by **sottovoce** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:45 pm

koalacity wrote:
sottovoce wrote:Thanks for all the quick replies, guys. Will the 4.11 gpa help me significantly because its over a 4.0?
Anecdotally, it won't make any difference at all.

YS are always a crapshoot, and your softs are definitely weak by their standards. If you're a good interviewer, you're probably in at HLS, though being KJD will hurt you. FWIW, I had 4.18/180 and was WL->admit at SLS and WL (I withdrew after being waitlisted, so no idea if I would've gotten in off the WL or not) at YLS. I had 2 years of average WE and probably marginally better softs. I had one very strong academic rec, one generic academic rec, and one strong employer rec-I think LORs matter more than TLS conventional wisdom thinks they do at YS.

You should take time off. As others have said, this is not solely-or even primarily-for admissions purposes, but rather because it's a good life decision (and will help your employability in law school).

Also had a question for you koalacity -- do you have any clue why you think you didn't make it at YLS? Would you have waited another cycle given the chance or are you happy with your decision?

cdotson2 · Post by **cdotson2** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:46 pm

sottovoce wrote:Thanks for the replies, everyone. I am most likely going to apply this cycle, see how it plays out and then wait a year or two to see if I can nab HLS/YLS/SLS if I don't get into any of them. I've gotten lots of great replies on what to do and have posted another brainstorm topic to figure out ways to make up for late softs.

Really don't want to sound like a douchebag here (judging from the other posts, already failed) -- but can anyone give me more information on whether the difference between a 4.08 or 4.11 matters? I can pursue a grades claim but don't want to if it's not worth the trouble.

there is most likely no difference at all in a 4.0 and anything higher. you are already above the median and 75th GPA for every school.

urbanist11 · Post by **urbanist11** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:49 pm

Post removed.

koalacity · Post by **koalacity** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:46 pm

sottovoce wrote:
koalacity wrote:
sottovoce wrote:Thanks for all the quick replies, guys. Will the 4.11 gpa help me significantly because its over a 4.0?
Anecdotally, it won't make any difference at all.

YS are always a crapshoot, and your softs are definitely weak by their standards. If you're a good interviewer, you're probably in at HLS, though being KJD will hurt you. FWIW, I had 4.18/180 and was WL->admit at SLS and WL (I withdrew after being waitlisted, so no idea if I would've gotten in off the WL or not) at YLS. I had 2 years of average WE and probably marginally better softs. I had one very strong academic rec, one generic academic rec, and one strong employer rec-I think LORs matter more than TLS conventional wisdom thinks they do at YS.

You should take time off. As others have said, this is not solely-or even primarily-for admissions purposes, but rather because it's a good life decision (and will help your employability in law school).
Also had a question for you koalacity -- do you have any clue why you think you didn't make it at YLS? Would you have waited another cycle given the chance or are you happy with your decision?

I assume it was my meh UG, softs, and/or LORs-it is unequivocally not all about numbers at YLS. I wanted SLS over YLS from the start, which is why I didn't stay on the YLS WL.

As far as being happy with my decision, I wish I had either deferred (to take another year off) or not gone to law school at all. But I absolutely don't regret not staying on the YLS WL/not reapplying, because from what I've heard about YLS, it wouldn't have been a good fit for me (but that's very much a personal decision).

Again, I highly recommend that you not go to law school straight out of UG.