URM Super Splitter - Need advice Forum

[Debater437]

I have had ambitions since I was 14 to attend a TLS. Georgetown is my top choice. However, my performance on the June LSAT was extremely disappointing and I need advice. I have been hesitant about coming to this forum for the truth, but I need to hear it. Here are my details:

GPA: 3.92 (political science)
URM: AA female
LSAT: (wait for it) 147. My eyes are watering as I write this. I am retaking in October and hope for AT LEAST a 156.
Softs: I am the president of the debate team at my college and hold 2 national titles for debate. I did a semester program and interned in Washington D.C., and I am part of a women's leadership/scholarship program among honors societies.

I only prepared for a month before the June test and plan to work my butt off for the next 2 months. But even if I hit let's say a 160 in October, is Georgetown completely out of reach because of my 147?

[rinkrat19]

Two months is not enough. Don't bother with October, study for 6+ months and take it in June. With that GPA you should not be settling for any LSAT that doesn't get you into HYS or a massive scholarship at basically any other T14. Anything else is just a complete waste of your work in college to get that beautiful GPA.

[runinthefront]

I have had ambitions since I was 14 to attend a TLS. Georgetown is my top choice. However, my performance on the June LSAT was extremely disappointing and I need advice. I have been regretting coming to this forum for the truth, but I need to hear it. Here are my details:

GPA: 3.92 (political science)
URM: AA female
LSAT: (wait for it) 147. My eyes are watering as I write this. I am retaking in October and hope for AT LEAST a 156.
Softs: I am the president of the debate team at my college and hold 2 national titles for debate. I did a semester program and interned in Washington D.C., and I am part of a women's leadership/scholarship program among honors societies.

I only prepared for a month before the June test and plan to work my butt off for the next 2 months. But even if I hit let's say a 160 in October, is Georgetown completely out of reach because of my 147?

There is no "at least." With a 160, you're in very good shape. With a 165+, you're virtually Writing Your Own Ticket. You're obviously very smart and capable, so I'm sure you can search around the URM forum and mylsn.info to find out how big of a difference a solid retake can mean.

No one will care about your 147 if you do well enough on your next test (maybe Yale and Stanford...maybe); it's not a big deal.

Good luck!

[AfroJordan23]

Two months is not enough. Don't bother with October, study for 6+ months and take it in June. With that GPA you should not be settling for any LSAT that doesn't get you into HYS or a massive scholarship at basically any other T14. Anything else is just a complete waste of your work in college to get that beautiful GPA.

6 months might be pushing it, I'd say more so along 3/4 months. Drill heavy early on and PT 3-4 times a week and blind review. I think an intense 40-hour a week prep over that time period is better than a drawn out period of more than 6 months doing less hours a week.

[Debater437]

Two months is not enough. Don't bother with October, study for 6+ months and take it in June. With that GPA you should not be settling for any LSAT that doesn't get you into HYS or a massive scholarship at basically any other T14. Anything else is just a complete waste of your work in college to get that beautiful GPA.

6 months might be pushing it, I'd say more so along 3/4 months. Drill heavy early on and PT 3-4 times a week and blind review. I think an intense 40-hour a week prep over that time period is better than a drawn out period of more than 6 months doing less hours a week.

So that's my problem. I'm a rising senior and want to apply for this admissions cycle. So if I wait 3 or 4 months that will push me back to taking the December test. Isn't it true when applying for top schools it is best to submit as soon as possible? Now I'm considering just taking the year off, even though I feel like that won't be productive either. I will still have to take the test in June, maintain my grades and GPA for both coming semesters, then sit around for a year (October to the next August once I submit my applications). Opinions on this?

[AfroJordan23]

Two months is not enough. Don't bother with October, study for 6+ months and take it in June. With that GPA you should not be settling for any LSAT that doesn't get you into HYS or a massive scholarship at basically any other T14. Anything else is just a complete waste of your work in college to get that beautiful GPA.

6 months might be pushing it, I'd say more so along 3/4 months. Drill heavy early on and PT 3-4 times a week and blind review. I think an intense 40-hour a week prep over that time period is better than a drawn out period of more than 6 months doing less hours a week.

So that's my problem. I'm a rising senior and want to apply for this admissions cycle. So if I wait 3 or 4 months that will push me back to taking the December test. Isn't it true when applying for top schools it is best to submit as soon as possible? Now I'm considering just taking the year off, even though I feel like that won't be productive either. I will still have to take the test in June, maintain my grades and GPA for both coming semesters, then sit around for a year (October to the next August once I submit my applications). Opinions on this?

Me along with everyone will tell you that taking a year off would be a great idea. Get some W/E, volunteer, etc. and devote serious time in the LSAT. Forget about the 147 just clear it out of your mind. Spend time focusing on the LSAT cuz with that GPA no school is off limits. what kind of URM are you?

[rinkrat19]

Two months is not enough. Don't bother with October, study for 6+ months and take it in June. With that GPA you should not be settling for any LSAT that doesn't get you into HYS or a massive scholarship at basically any other T14. Anything else is just a complete waste of your work in college to get that beautiful GPA.

6 months might be pushing it, I'd say more so along 3/4 months. Drill heavy early on and PT 3-4 times a week and blind review. I think an intense 40-hour a week prep over that time period is better than a drawn out period of more than 6 months doing less hours a week.

So that's my problem. I'm a rising senior and want to apply for this admissions cycle. So if I wait 3 or 4 months that will push me back to taking the December test. Isn't it true when applying for top schools it is best to submit as soon as possible? Now I'm considering just taking the year off, even though I feel like that won't be productive either. I will still have to take the test in June, maintain my grades and GPA for both coming semesters, then sit around for a year (October to the next August once I submit my applications). Opinions on this?

Take the year, get a job (or a part-time job). Taking a year before law school is practically never a bad idea. Law school will always be there. Work experience can only help. And you need to not waste that GPA.

Which would you regret more: not applying RIGHT NOW, or not doing your damndest to get into Harvard or Stanford or Columbia or NYU?

[Debater437]

Two months is not enough. Don't bother with October, study for 6+ months and take it in June. With that GPA you should not be settling for any LSAT that doesn't get you into HYS or a massive scholarship at basically any other T14. Anything else is just a complete waste of your work in college to get that beautiful GPA.

6 months might be pushing it, I'd say more so along 3/4 months. Drill heavy early on and PT 3-4 times a week and blind review. I think an intense 40-hour a week prep over that time period is better than a drawn out period of more than 6 months doing less hours a week.

So that's my problem. I'm a rising senior and want to apply for this admissions cycle. So if I wait 3 or 4 months that will push me back to taking the December test. Isn't it true when applying for top schools it is best to submit as soon as possible? Now I'm considering just taking the year off, even though I feel like that won't be productive either. I will still have to take the test in June, maintain my grades and GPA for both coming semesters, then sit around for a year (October to the next August once I submit my applications). Opinions on this?

Me along with everyone will tell you that taking a year off would be a great idea. Get some W/E, volunteer, etc. and devote serious time in the LSAT. Forget about the 147 just clear it out of your mind. Spend time focusing on the LSAT cuz with that GPA no school is off limits. what kind of URM are you?

Yeah, I guess it's time to face reality. I'm actually abroad right now until next week, will take some practice tests when I return, and if I'm not seeing improvement I will withdraw from the October test.

I'm an African American female.

[AfroJordan23]

Two months is not enough. Don't bother with October, study for 6+ months and take it in June. With that GPA you should not be settling for any LSAT that doesn't get you into HYS or a massive scholarship at basically any other T14. Anything else is just a complete waste of your work in college to get that beautiful GPA.

6 months might be pushing it, I'd say more so along 3/4 months. Drill heavy early on and PT 3-4 times a week and blind review. I think an intense 40-hour a week prep over that time period is better than a drawn out period of more than 6 months doing less hours a week.

So that's my problem. I'm a rising senior and want to apply for this admissions cycle. So if I wait 3 or 4 months that will push me back to taking the December test. Isn't it true when applying for top schools it is best to submit as soon as possible? Now I'm considering just taking the year off, even though I feel like that won't be productive either. I will still have to take the test in June, maintain my grades and GPA for both coming semesters, then sit around for a year (October to the next August once I submit my applications). Opinions on this?

Me along with everyone will tell you that taking a year off would be a great idea. Get some W/E, volunteer, etc. and devote serious time in the LSAT. Forget about the 147 just clear it out of your mind. Spend time focusing on the LSAT cuz with that GPA no school is off limits. what kind of URM are you?

Yeah, I guess it's time to face reality. I'm actually abroad right now until next week, will take some practice tests when I return, and if I'm not seeing improvement I will withdraw from the October test.

I'm an African American female.

Good. AAs get the biggest boost. The poster above is right, there's no reason why you should go anywhere not in the T6. there are plently of great resources on this website. Personally I'd reccommend the LSAT trainer to start off with and the Powerscore bibles, although I hear manhattan is great too especially for LR. Drill for accuracy using the cambridge packets first, then dive into timed sections and then timed full PTs. Go for accuracy first, develop the right habits, than timing, and finally endurance. it's not uncommon for people to end up doing every available LSAT question on all the 78 release practice tests their are during their LSAT journey. good luck!

[Legacy Rabbit]

I have had ambitions since I was 14 to attend a TLS. Georgetown is my top choice. However, my performance on the June LSAT was extremely disappointing and I need advice. I have been hesitant about coming to this forum for the truth, but I need to hear it. Here are my details:

GPA: 3.92 (political science)
URM: AA female
LSAT: (wait for it) 147. My eyes are watering as I write this. I am retaking in October and hope for AT LEAST a 156.
Softs: I am the president of the debate team at my college and hold 2 national titles for debate. I did a semester program and interned in Washington D.C., and I am part of a women's leadership/scholarship program among honors societies.

I only prepared for a month before the June test and plan to work my butt off for the next 2 months. But even if I hit let's say a 160 in October, is Georgetown completely out of reach because of my 147?

You are not ready to use any of the non-LSAC LSAT materials or even pay for a tutor. Do not pay for a class. This will all be a waste of your time and money. You will not make a 156 by October. You fundamentally do not understand this test, let alone within the time allotted time. To test a 156 by October, a nine point increase, you will need a private tutor who already understands your weakness, documented your weakness, and has a study plan set for you. The aforementioned in and of itself takes time to assess; it is highly doubtful you will have a tutor who has already properly assessed you THEN begin training you, all before the end of September.

Plus, that number should not be your goal. Only take the LSAT when you are truly ready. You should not sit for this test until you PTing a 168 in test-like condition. Test like conditions means PTing NOT IN YOUR HOUSE. You will know when you are ready to test when you can sit in a starbucks and at least score in the high 160s.

Your ultimate PT goal needs to be in 168-174 range. Do not sit for another test until you have taken ten PT and score within this range in test-like / stressful conditions.

I highly suggest to not consider testing until June 2016 because you need to understand logic. Reviewing an intro to logic book will work wonders for you. If possible it is best to take a class that uses the best book, Copi and Cohen's 14th ed. Intro to Logic. If you cannot find a class, then review this test book in its entirety on your own. The new edition has even better explanations from previous editions and better illustrations for those who self-study. Once you have completed this book and its exercises then review the Powerscore Logic Games Bible and LSAC published books. Also, keep you poli-sci classes political theory books from school. Review these books through your study. Make sure you understand scope and author assumptions of everything you read.

You are more than a rising senior, you are a rising young woman with an amazing future / career ahead of you. You have worked very hard and achieved an exceptional GPA. Please do not waste your GPA with a minimal LSAT score. Lastly, after you achieve your high score negotiate accordingly (you should reach out to your law school advisor at your undergrad for help). If you can achieve a 168-173 you are looking at the high possibility of a full ride at a T50. If you score a 174 you are looking at the possibility for a full ride at a T14.

[gnomgnomuch]

I have had ambitions since I was 14 to attend a TLS. Georgetown is my top choice. However, my performance on the June LSAT was extremely disappointing and I need advice. I have been hesitant about coming to this forum for the truth, but I need to hear it. Here are my details:

GPA: 3.92 (political science)
URM: AA female
LSAT: (wait for it) 147. My eyes are watering as I write this. I am retaking in October and hope for AT LEAST a 156.
Softs: I am the president of the debate team at my college and hold 2 national titles for debate. I did a semester program and interned in Washington D.C., and I am part of a women's leadership/scholarship program among honors societies.

I only prepared for a month before the June test and plan to work my butt off for the next 2 months. But even if I hit let's say a 160 in October, is Georgetown completely out of reach because of my 147?

You are not ready to use any of the non-LSAC LSAT materials or even pay for a tutor. Do not pay for a class. This will all be a waste of your time and money. You will not make a 156 by October. You fundamentally do not understand this test, let alone within the time allotted time. To test a 156 by October, a nine point increase, you will need a private tutor who already understands your weakness, documented your weakness, and has a study plan set for you. The aforementioned in and of itself takes time to assess; it is highly doubtful you will have a tutor who has already properly assessed you THEN begin training you, all before the end of September.

Plus, that number should not be your goal. Only take the LSAT when you are truly ready. You should not sit for this test until you PTing a 168 in test-like condition. Test like conditions means PTing NOT IN YOUR HOUSE. You will know when you are ready to test when you can sit in a starbucks and at least score in the high 160s.

Your ultimate PT goal needs to be in 168-174 range. Do not sit for another test until you have taken ten PT and score within this range in test-like / stressful conditions.

I highly suggest to not consider testing until June 2016 because you need to understand logic. Reviewing an intro to logic book will work wonders for you. If possible it is best to take a class that uses the best book, Copi and Cohen's 14th ed. Intro to Logic. If you cannot find a class, then review this test book in its entirety on your own. The new edition has even better explanations from previous editions and better illustrations for those who self-study. Once you have completed this book and its exercises then review the Powerscore Logic Games Bible and LSAC published books. Also, keep you poli-sci classes political theory books from school. Review these books through your study. Make sure you understand scope and author assumptions of everything you read.

You are more than a rising senior, you are a rising young woman with an amazing future / career ahead of you. You have worked very hard and achieved an exceptional GPA. Please do not waste your GPA with a minimal LSAT score. Lastly, after you achieve your high score negotiate accordingly (you should reach out to your law school advisor at your undergrad for help). If you can achieve a 168-173 you are looking at the high possibility of a full ride at a T50. If you score a 174 you are looking at the possibility for a full ride at a T14.

I don't think the guy above knows what he's talking about.... To go from a 146-156 isn't super tough. It literally requires you pick up the easiest questions that you've missed. You doubtfully need to read any books on logic. What you need to do is look at your test and figure out where you lost the most amount of points, then start drilling those by type/difficulty - the Cambridge sets are wonderful for these. Once you get the hang of every type of question type you combine that and start taking actual tests.

Also, high possibility of a full ride to a T-50....I mean how do you go from 168-173/ T-50 and then 174/T-14. You're looking at money from T-14 with a 165, and full rides at a 168.

You also don't need a 174 to get a full ride. You're an AA female, with a 3.9 GPA. A 170 puts you in the top 97% of ALL test takers, and will make you among the top AA's in your cycle for an LSAT score. That alone will get t-14's throwing money at you, with a 3.9, you'll be fielding offers. That's also what your goal should be, a full ride at a t-14, preferably something like a Ruby/Hamilton. 173/3.9 are the stats for regular applicants who get those offers, as an AA female, you'll prob get something with a 168.

A 168 puts you in the running for massive scholarships and HYS. (Honestly, with that GPA, a 165 should get you at least one of HYS and def something from CCN.)

My advice would be to commit to the LSAT like it's a full time job. Study for next June, maybe Feb (it's not disclosed, so you don't find out your answers, just the score) if you feel like you're ready by then, and knock it out of the park. You have a shot to go to any law school you want to.

GL =)

[Legacy Rabbit]

I have had ambitions since I was 14 to attend a TLS. Georgetown is my top choice. However, my performance on the June LSAT was extremely disappointing and I need advice. I have been hesitant about coming to this forum for the truth, but I need to hear it. Here are my details:

GPA: 3.92 (political science)
URM: AA female
LSAT: (wait for it) 147. My eyes are watering as I write this. I am retaking in October and hope for AT LEAST a 156.
Softs: I am the president of the debate team at my college and hold 2 national titles for debate. I did a semester program and interned in Washington D.C., and I am part of a women's leadership/scholarship program among honors societies.

I only prepared for a month before the June test and plan to work my butt off for the next 2 months. But even if I hit let's say a 160 in October, is Georgetown completely out of reach because of my 147?

You are not ready to use any of the non-LSAC LSAT materials or even pay for a tutor. Do not pay for a class. This will all be a waste of your time and money. You will not make a 156 by October. You fundamentally do not understand this test, let alone within the time allotted time. To test a 156 by October, a nine point increase, you will need a private tutor who already understands your weakness, documented your weakness, and has a study plan set for you. The aforementioned in and of itself takes time to assess; it is highly doubtful you will have a tutor who has already properly assessed you THEN begin training you, all before the end of September.

Plus, that number should not be your goal. Only take the LSAT when you are truly ready. You should not sit for this test until you PTing a 168 in test-like condition. Test like conditions means PTing NOT IN YOUR HOUSE. You will know when you are ready to test when you can sit in a starbucks and at least score in the high 160s.

Your ultimate PT goal needs to be in 168-174 range. Do not sit for another test until you have taken ten PT and score within this range in test-like / stressful conditions.

I highly suggest to not consider testing until June 2016 because you need to understand logic. Reviewing an intro to logic book will work wonders for you. If possible it is best to take a class that uses the best book, Copi and Cohen's 14th ed. Intro to Logic. If you cannot find a class, then review this test book in its entirety on your own. The new edition has even better explanations from previous editions and better illustrations for those who self-study. Once you have completed this book and its exercises then review the Powerscore Logic Games Bible and LSAC published books. Also, keep you poli-sci classes political theory books from school. Review these books through your study. Make sure you understand scope and author assumptions of everything you read.

You are more than a rising senior, you are a rising young woman with an amazing future / career ahead of you. You have worked very hard and achieved an exceptional GPA. Please do not waste your GPA with a minimal LSAT score. Lastly, after you achieve your high score negotiate accordingly (you should reach out to your law school advisor at your undergrad for help). If you can achieve a 168-173 you are looking at the high possibility of a full ride at a T50. If you score a 174 you are looking at the possibility for a full ride at a T14.

I don't think the guy above knows what he's talking about.... To go from a 146-156 isn't super tough. It literally requires you pick up the easiest questions that you've missed. You doubtfully need to read any books on logic. What you need to do is look at your test and figure out where you lost the most amount of points, then start drilling those by type/difficulty - the Cambridge sets are wonderful for these. Once you get the hang of every type of question type you combine that and start taking actual tests.

Also, high possibility of a full ride to a T-50....I mean how do you go from 168-173/ T-50 and then 174/T-14. You're looking at money from T-14 with a 165, and full rides at a 168.

You also don't need a 174 to get a full ride. You're an AA female, with a 3.9 GPA. A 170 puts you in the top 97% of ALL test takers, and will make you among the top AA's in your cycle for an LSAT score. That alone will get t-14's throwing money at you, with a 3.9, you'll be fielding offers. That's also what your goal should be, a full ride at a t-14, preferably something like a Ruby/Hamilton. 173/3.9 are the stats for regular applicants who get those offers, as an AA female, you'll prob get something with a 168.

A 168 puts you in the running for massive scholarships and HYS. (Honestly, with that GPA, a 165 should get you at least one of HYS and def something from CCN.)

My advice would be to commit to the LSAT like it's a full time job. Study for next June, maybe Feb (it's not disclosed, so you don't find out your answers, just the score) if you feel like you're ready by then, and knock it out of the park. You have a shot to go to any law school you want to.

GL =)

LOL

You just want to fucking argue.... just to fucking argue. Do not even try to bring me into your bullshit nonsense of a response.

I made it very clear that a 146-156 is not going to happen by October. You want to mention some Cambridge books to achieve this 156. Why state this to someone 3.9 GPA? Who the fuck does that?

Then you somehow want to debate and bull shit back and forth and prove me wrong with what numbers will bring a full ride. You have done nothing to address the 147. All you said is a 156 is doable....yeah it is fucking doable....but why fucking do it?

GTFOH and enjoy your Sunday.

[runinthefront]

On one hand, 147 is a pretty abysmal score. On the other hand, your GPA suggests that you are a highly capable individual who is also very diligent.

I think you should take the LSAT whenever you're comfortable hitting 165+ although I think your cycle will turn out fabulous even if you are only hitting 160+. A 156 is a pretty shitty score to shoot for, and you'd be selling yourself short by doing so.

If you can break the 160/165 barrier by October 2015, that's awesome. Sit for the test. If you can't? No big deal, just sit for the December 2015 or February 2016 test.

I wouldn't wait until June 2016 because if you fuck up again, you'll need to use your last retake. Also, You shouldn't need an entire year to study. Maybe...but you shouldn't.

Just my .02 cents. Good luck OP.

[runinthefront]

You just want to fucking argue.... just to fucking argue. Do not even try to bring me into your bullshit nonsense of a response.

I made it very clear that a 146-156 is not going to happen by October. You want to mention some Cambridge books to achieve this 156. Why state this to someone 3.9 GPA? Who the fuck does that?

Then you somehow want to debate and bull shit back and forth and prove me wrong with what numbers will bring a full ride. You have done nothing to address the 147. All you said is a 156 is doable....yeah it is fucking doable....but why fucking do it?

GTFOH and enjoy your Sunday.

Dude, the above poster was kind of right--your advice was shitty. Also, as an AA female, she's a lock for Harvard with a 3.9 whether she scores a 166 or a 173. OP will be getting 3/4 rides or better at lower t14s with a 162 (if that).

[Debater437]

On one hand, 147 is a pretty abysmal score. On the other hand, your GPA suggests that you are a highly capable individual who is also very diligent.

I think you should take the LSAT whenever you're comfortable hitting 165+ although I think your cycle will turn out fabulous even if you are only hitting 160+. A 156 is a pretty shitty score to shoot for, and you'd be selling yourself short by doing so.

If you can break the 160/165 barrier by October 2015, that's awesome. Sit for the test. If you can't? No big deal, just sit for the December 2015 or February 2016 test.

I wouldn't wait until June 2016 because if you fuck up again, you'll need to use your last retake. Also, You shouldn't need an entire year to study. Maybe...but you shouldn't.

Just my .02 cents. Good luck OP.

Thank you for the excellent advice. I have 2 more questions:

1) How do you suggest I study as if its a full time job for a 160+ while still in school full time? Obviously I'm not asking for a study plan, I'm just wondering if this is possible. If applying next fall I definitely have to work extremely hard the next 2 semesters to maintain/increase my GPA.

2) If I do take the test in February, I will still have to apply for NEXT year (entering class of 2017) cycle, correct? I guess my question is- do t14 schools save spots for February test takers? I'm assuming the answer is no.

[CanadianWolf]

OP: How did you prepare for your first LSAT sitting ?

Consider enrolling in a prep course & do as many practice exams as your schedule permits. The practice exams should reveal when you are ready for your next LSAT sitting.

P.S. Avoid using Logic course books or any other college texts. You need to focus solely on the LSAT. Powerscore, Manhattan or Blueprint have been recommended by many posters. Kaplan is not recommended.

Also, don't psyche yourself out by aiming for a 170 or higher. Anything in the 160s should yield generous scholarship offers from lower T-14 law schools as well as many regional law schools.

[Debater437]

OP: How did you prepare for your first LSAT sitting ?

Consider enrolling in a prep course & do as many practice exams as your schedule permits. The practice exams should reveal when you are ready for your next LSAT sitting.

P.S. Avoid using Logic course books or any other college texts. You need to focus solely on the LSAT. Powerscore, Manhattan or Blueprint have been recommended by many posters. Kaplan is not recommended.

Also, don't psyche yourself out by aiming for a 170 or higher. Anything in the 160s should yield generous scholarship offers from lower T-14 law schools as well as many regional law schools.

Thanks for your input. I actually took a 10 night Princeton Review class. It covered the very basics and I took a total of 5 practice tests. My first test was a 143 and my last was a 153. Some other posters advised a private tutor which I think may make sense for my situation. I have the detailed reports from each PT that I can show use to evaluate my focus areas.

[Debater437]

I have had ambitions since I was 14 to attend a TLS. Georgetown is my top choice. However, my performance on the June LSAT was extremely disappointing and I need advice. I have been hesitant about coming to this forum for the truth, but I need to hear it. Here are my details:

GPA: 3.92 (political science)
URM: AA female
LSAT: (wait for it) 147. My eyes are watering as I write this. I am retaking in October and hope for AT LEAST a 156.
Softs: I am the president of the debate team at my college and hold 2 national titles for debate. I did a semester program and interned in Washington D.C., and I am part of a women's leadership/scholarship program among honors societies.

I only prepared for a month before the June test and plan to work my butt off for the next 2 months. But even if I hit let's say a 160 in October, is Georgetown completely out of reach because of my 147?

You are not ready to use any of the non-LSAC LSAT materials or even pay for a tutor. Do not pay for a class. This will all be a waste of your time and money. You will not make a 156 by October. You fundamentally do not understand this test, let alone within the time allotted time. To test a 156 by October, a nine point increase, you will need a private tutor who already understands your weakness, documented your weakness, and has a study plan set for you. The aforementioned in and of itself takes time to assess; it is highly doubtful you will have a tutor who has already properly assessed you THEN begin training you, all before the end of September.

Plus, that number should not be your goal. Only take the LSAT when you are truly ready. You should not sit for this test until you PTing a 168 in test-like condition. Test like conditions means PTing NOT IN YOUR HOUSE. You will know when you are ready to test when you can sit in a starbucks and at least score in the high 160s.

Your ultimate PT goal needs to be in 168-174 range. Do not sit for another test until you have taken ten PT and score within this range in test-like / stressful conditions.

I highly suggest to not consider testing until June 2016 because you need to understand logic. Reviewing an intro to logic book will work wonders for you. If possible it is best to take a class that uses the best book, Copi and Cohen's 14th ed. Intro to Logic. If you cannot find a class, then review this test book in its entirety on your own. The new edition has even better explanations from previous editions and better illustrations for those who self-study. Once you have completed this book and its exercises then review the Powerscore Logic Games Bible and LSAC published books. Also, keep you poli-sci classes political theory books from school. Review these books through your study. Make sure you understand scope and author assumptions of everything you read.

You are more than a rising senior, you are a rising young woman with an amazing future / career ahead of you. You have worked very hard and achieved an exceptional GPA. Please do not waste your GPA with a minimal LSAT score. Lastly, after you achieve your high score negotiate accordingly (you should reach out to your law school advisor at your undergrad for help). If you can achieve a 168-173 you are looking at the high possibility of a full ride at a T50. If you score a 174 you are looking at the possibility for a full ride at a T14.

Thank you for your comments. I looked into taking a Intro to Logic class at my school this semester and enrolled, however it does not use the book you suggested. It uses: Hurley's "A Concise Introduction to Logic". Do you have any opinions about this text?

[gnomgnomuch]

I have had ambitions since I was 14 to attend a TLS. Georgetown is my top choice. However, my performance on the June LSAT was extremely disappointing and I need advice. I have been hesitant about coming to this forum for the truth, but I need to hear it. Here are my details:

GPA: 3.92 (political science)
URM: AA female
LSAT: (wait for it) 147. My eyes are watering as I write this. I am retaking in October and hope for AT LEAST a 156.
Softs: I am the president of the debate team at my college and hold 2 national titles for debate. I did a semester program and interned in Washington D.C., and I am part of a women's leadership/scholarship program among honors societies.

I only prepared for a month before the June test and plan to work my butt off for the next 2 months. But even if I hit let's say a 160 in October, is Georgetown completely out of reach because of my 147?

You are not ready to use any of the non-LSAC LSAT materials or even pay for a tutor. Do not pay for a class. This will all be a waste of your time and money. You will not make a 156 by October. You fundamentally do not understand this test, let alone within the time allotted time. To test a 156 by October, a nine point increase, you will need a private tutor who already understands your weakness, documented your weakness, and has a study plan set for you. The aforementioned in and of itself takes time to assess; it is highly doubtful you will have a tutor who has already properly assessed you THEN begin training you, all before the end of September.

Plus, that number should not be your goal. Only take the LSAT when you are truly ready. You should not sit for this test until you PTing a 168 in test-like condition. Test like conditions means PTing NOT IN YOUR HOUSE. You will know when you are ready to test when you can sit in a starbucks and at least score in the high 160s.

Your ultimate PT goal needs to be in 168-174 range. Do not sit for another test until you have taken ten PT and score within this range in test-like / stressful conditions.

I highly suggest to not consider testing until June 2016 because you need to understand logic. Reviewing an intro to logic book will work wonders for you. If possible it is best to take a class that uses the best book, Copi and Cohen's 14th ed. Intro to Logic. If you cannot find a class, then review this test book in its entirety on your own. The new edition has even better explanations from previous editions and better illustrations for those who self-study. Once you have completed this book and its exercises then review the Powerscore Logic Games Bible and LSAC published books. Also, keep you poli-sci classes political theory books from school. Review these books through your study. Make sure you understand scope and author assumptions of everything you read.

You are more than a rising senior, you are a rising young woman with an amazing future / career ahead of you. You have worked very hard and achieved an exceptional GPA. Please do not waste your GPA with a minimal LSAT score. Lastly, after you achieve your high score negotiate accordingly (you should reach out to your law school advisor at your undergrad for help). If you can achieve a 168-173 you are looking at the high possibility of a full ride at a T50. If you score a 174 you are looking at the possibility for a full ride at a T14.

I don't think the guy above knows what he's talking about.... To go from a 146-156 isn't super tough. It literally requires you pick up the easiest questions that you've missed. You doubtfully need to read any books on logic. What you need to do is look at your test and figure out where you lost the most amount of points, then start drilling those by type/difficulty - the Cambridge sets are wonderful for these. Once you get the hang of every type of question type you combine that and start taking actual tests.

Also, high possibility of a full ride to a T-50....I mean how do you go from 168-173/ T-50 and then 174/T-14. You're looking at money from T-14 with a 165, and full rides at a 168.

You also don't need a 174 to get a full ride. You're an AA female, with a 3.9 GPA. A 170 puts you in the top 97% of ALL test takers, and will make you among the top AA's in your cycle for an LSAT score. That alone will get t-14's throwing money at you, with a 3.9, you'll be fielding offers. That's also what your goal should be, a full ride at a t-14, preferably something like a Ruby/Hamilton. 173/3.9 are the stats for regular applicants who get those offers, as an AA female, you'll prob get something with a 168.

A 168 puts you in the running for massive scholarships and HYS. (Honestly, with that GPA, a 165 should get you at least one of HYS and def something from CCN.)

My advice would be to commit to the LSAT like it's a full time job. Study for next June, maybe Feb (it's not disclosed, so you don't find out your answers, just the score) if you feel like you're ready by then, and knock it out of the park. You have a shot to go to any law school you want to.

GL =)

LOL

You just want to fucking argue.... just to fucking argue. Do not even try to bring me into your bullshit nonsense of a response.

I made it very clear that a 146-156 is not going to happen by October. You want to mention some Cambridge books to achieve this 156. Why state this to someone 3.9 GPA? Who the fuck does that?

Then you somehow want to debate and bull shit back and forth and prove me wrong with what numbers will bring a full ride. You have done nothing to address the 147. All you said is a 156 is doable....yeah it is fucking doable....but why fucking do it?

GTFOH and enjoy your Sunday.

Yea, I explicitly told her to aim for a high 160's score, and that getting to a 156 is just a matter of getting rid all the easy/stupid mistakes she was currently making. The cambridge books are used by most people on this thread and they took me from a 146-168 within 2 months... I'm just passing on the advice. You completely misrepresented what I said.

[Debater437]

I have had ambitions since I was 14 to attend a TLS. Georgetown is my top choice. However, my performance on the June LSAT was extremely disappointing and I need advice. I have been hesitant about coming to this forum for the truth, but I need to hear it. Here are my details:

GPA: 3.92 (political science)
URM: AA female
LSAT: (wait for it) 147. My eyes are watering as I write this. I am retaking in October and hope for AT LEAST a 156.
Softs: I am the president of the debate team at my college and hold 2 national titles for debate. I did a semester program and interned in Washington D.C., and I am part of a women's leadership/scholarship program among honors societies.

I only prepared for a month before the June test and plan to work my butt off for the next 2 months. But even if I hit let's say a 160 in October, is Georgetown completely out of reach because of my 147?

You are not ready to use any of the non-LSAC LSAT materials or even pay for a tutor. Do not pay for a class. This will all be a waste of your time and money. You will not make a 156 by October. You fundamentally do not understand this test, let alone within the time allotted time. To test a 156 by October, a nine point increase, you will need a private tutor who already understands your weakness, documented your weakness, and has a study plan set for you. The aforementioned in and of itself takes time to assess; it is highly doubtful you will have a tutor who has already properly assessed you THEN begin training you, all before the end of September.

Plus, that number should not be your goal. Only take the LSAT when you are truly ready. You should not sit for this test until you PTing a 168 in test-like condition. Test like conditions means PTing NOT IN YOUR HOUSE. You will know when you are ready to test when you can sit in a starbucks and at least score in the high 160s.

Your ultimate PT goal needs to be in 168-174 range. Do not sit for another test until you have taken ten PT and score within this range in test-like / stressful conditions.

I highly suggest to not consider testing until June 2016 because you need to understand logic. Reviewing an intro to logic book will work wonders for you. If possible it is best to take a class that uses the best book, Copi and Cohen's 14th ed. Intro to Logic. If you cannot find a class, then review this test book in its entirety on your own. The new edition has even better explanations from previous editions and better illustrations for those who self-study. Once you have completed this book and its exercises then review the Powerscore Logic Games Bible and LSAC published books. Also, keep you poli-sci classes political theory books from school. Review these books through your study. Make sure you understand scope and author assumptions of everything you read.

You are more than a rising senior, you are a rising young woman with an amazing future / career ahead of you. You have worked very hard and achieved an exceptional GPA. Please do not waste your GPA with a minimal LSAT score. Lastly, after you achieve your high score negotiate accordingly (you should reach out to your law school advisor at your undergrad for help). If you can achieve a 168-173 you are looking at the high possibility of a full ride at a T50. If you score a 174 you are looking at the possibility for a full ride at a T14.

I don't think the guy above knows what he's talking about.... To go from a 146-156 isn't super tough. It literally requires you pick up the easiest questions that you've missed. You doubtfully need to read any books on logic. What you need to do is look at your test and figure out where you lost the most amount of points, then start drilling those by type/difficulty - the Cambridge sets are wonderful for these. Once you get the hang of every type of question type you combine that and start taking actual tests.

Also, high possibility of a full ride to a T-50....I mean how do you go from 168-173/ T-50 and then 174/T-14. You're looking at money from T-14 with a 165, and full rides at a 168.

You also don't need a 174 to get a full ride. You're an AA female, with a 3.9 GPA. A 170 puts you in the top 97% of ALL test takers, and will make you among the top AA's in your cycle for an LSAT score. That alone will get t-14's throwing money at you, with a 3.9, you'll be fielding offers. That's also what your goal should be, a full ride at a t-14, preferably something like a Ruby/Hamilton. 173/3.9 are the stats for regular applicants who get those offers, as an AA female, you'll prob get something with a 168.

A 168 puts you in the running for massive scholarships and HYS. (Honestly, with that GPA, a 165 should get you at least one of HYS and def something from CCN.)

My advice would be to commit to the LSAT like it's a full time job. Study for next June, maybe Feb (it's not disclosed, so you don't find out your answers, just the score) if you feel like you're ready by then, and knock it out of the park. You have a shot to go to any law school you want to.

GL =)

LOL

You just want to fucking argue.... just to fucking argue. Do not even try to bring me into your bullshit nonsense of a response.

I made it very clear that a 146-156 is not going to happen by October. You want to mention some Cambridge books to achieve this 156. Why state this to someone 3.9 GPA? Who the fuck does that?

Then you somehow want to debate and bull shit back and forth and prove me wrong with what numbers will bring a full ride. You have done nothing to address the 147. All you said is a 156 is doable....yeah it is fucking doable....but why fucking do it?

GTFOH and enjoy your Sunday.

Yea, I explicitly told her to aim for a high 160's score, and that getting to a 156 is just a matter of getting rid all the easy/stupid mistakes she was currently making. The cambridge books are used by most people on this thread and they took me from a 146-168 within 2 months... I'm just passing on the advice. You completely misrepresented what I said.

Which Cambridge books do you recommend?

[PoopNpants]

I think there talking about the cambridge packets that organize each section by question type. Usually people do a set of those for drilling in order to get accuracy, you can find them online. Also please ignore Legacy Rabbit he or she has no fucking clue what they are talking about lol "168-174 will get you a T50" that is just absurd with someone who has your GPA let alone an African-american. Honestly if you crack 160 you'll get great T14 offers and if you crack 165 you'll get CCN and probably H too. Don't wait til June to re-take that is absurd, I'd say get studying asap now and probably sit for December 4 months should be adequate

[gnomgnomuch]

I have had ambitions since I was 14 to attend a TLS. Georgetown is my top choice. However, my performance on the June LSAT was extremely disappointing and I need advice. I have been hesitant about coming to this forum for the truth, but I need to hear it. Here are my details:

GPA: 3.92 (political science)
URM: AA female
LSAT: (wait for it) 147. My eyes are watering as I write this. I am retaking in October and hope for AT LEAST a 156.
Softs: I am the president of the debate team at my college and hold 2 national titles for debate. I did a semester program and interned in Washington D.C., and I am part of a women's leadership/scholarship program among honors societies.

I only prepared for a month before the June test and plan to work my butt off for the next 2 months. But even if I hit let's say a 160 in October, is Georgetown completely out of reach because of my 147?

You are not ready to use any of the non-LSAC LSAT materials or even pay for a tutor. Do not pay for a class. This will all be a waste of your time and money. You will not make a 156 by October. You fundamentally do not understand this test, let alone within the time allotted time. To test a 156 by October, a nine point increase, you will need a private tutor who already understands your weakness, documented your weakness, and has a study plan set for you. The aforementioned in and of itself takes time to assess; it is highly doubtful you will have a tutor who has already properly assessed you THEN begin training you, all before the end of September.

Plus, that number should not be your goal. Only take the LSAT when you are truly ready. You should not sit for this test until you PTing a 168 in test-like condition. Test like conditions means PTing NOT IN YOUR HOUSE. You will know when you are ready to test when you can sit in a starbucks and at least score in the high 160s.

Your ultimate PT goal needs to be in 168-174 range. Do not sit for another test until you have taken ten PT and score within this range in test-like / stressful conditions.

I highly suggest to not consider testing until June 2016 because you need to understand logic. Reviewing an intro to logic book will work wonders for you. If possible it is best to take a class that uses the best book, Copi and Cohen's 14th ed. Intro to Logic. If you cannot find a class, then review this test book in its entirety on your own. The new edition has even better explanations from previous editions and better illustrations for those who self-study. Once you have completed this book and its exercises then review the Powerscore Logic Games Bible and LSAC published books. Also, keep you poli-sci classes political theory books from school. Review these books through your study. Make sure you understand scope and author assumptions of everything you read.

You are more than a rising senior, you are a rising young woman with an amazing future / career ahead of you. You have worked very hard and achieved an exceptional GPA. Please do not waste your GPA with a minimal LSAT score. Lastly, after you achieve your high score negotiate accordingly (you should reach out to your law school advisor at your undergrad for help). If you can achieve a 168-173 you are looking at the high possibility of a full ride at a T50. If you score a 174 you are looking at the possibility for a full ride at a T14.

I don't think the guy above knows what he's talking about.... To go from a 146-156 isn't super tough. It literally requires you pick up the easiest questions that you've missed. You doubtfully need to read any books on logic. What you need to do is look at your test and figure out where you lost the most amount of points, then start drilling those by type/difficulty - the Cambridge sets are wonderful for these. Once you get the hang of every type of question type you combine that and start taking actual tests.

Also, high possibility of a full ride to a T-50....I mean how do you go from 168-173/ T-50 and then 174/T-14. You're looking at money from T-14 with a 165, and full rides at a 168.

You also don't need a 174 to get a full ride. You're an AA female, with a 3.9 GPA. A 170 puts you in the top 97% of ALL test takers, and will make you among the top AA's in your cycle for an LSAT score. That alone will get t-14's throwing money at you, with a 3.9, you'll be fielding offers. That's also what your goal should be, a full ride at a t-14, preferably something like a Ruby/Hamilton. 173/3.9 are the stats for regular applicants who get those offers, as an AA female, you'll prob get something with a 168.

A 168 puts you in the running for massive scholarships and HYS. (Honestly, with that GPA, a 165 should get you at least one of HYS and def something from CCN.)

My advice would be to commit to the LSAT like it's a full time job. Study for next June, maybe Feb (it's not disclosed, so you don't find out your answers, just the score) if you feel like you're ready by then, and knock it out of the park. You have a shot to go to any law school you want to.

GL =)

LOL

You just want to fucking argue.... just to fucking argue. Do not even try to bring me into your bullshit nonsense of a response.

I made it very clear that a 146-156 is not going to happen by October. You want to mention some Cambridge books to achieve this 156. Why state this to someone 3.9 GPA? Who the fuck does that?

Then you somehow want to debate and bull shit back and forth and prove me wrong with what numbers will bring a full ride. You have done nothing to address the 147. All you said is a 156 is doable....yeah it is fucking doable....but why fucking do it?

GTFOH and enjoy your Sunday.

Yea, I explicitly told her to aim for a high 160's score, and that getting to a 156 is just a matter of getting rid all the easy/stupid mistakes she was currently making. The cambridge books are used by most people on this thread and they took me from a 146-168 within 2 months... I'm just passing on the advice. You completely misrepresented what I said.

Which Cambridge books do you recommend?

http://www.cambridgelsat.com/problem-sets/ I bought these

[terrier27]

.

[Mack.Hambleton]

Your first test was with basically 0 prep, so don't be discouraged by it.

Just do what everyone else who's serious about getting into a top school does: multiple months of prep, follow a guide from the LSAT prep forum, do 7sage, drill the cambridge packets, do every single PT available, etc etc.

With that GPA you should be aiming higher than GULC. Get your PT averages very high before you take the test again.

[Debater437]

Your first test was with basically 0 prep, so don't be discouraged by it.

Just do what everyone else who's serious about getting into a top school does: multiple months of prep, follow a guide from the LSAT prep forum, do 7sage, drill the cambridge packets, do every single PT available, etc etc.

With that GPA you should be aiming higher than GULC. Get your PT averages very high before you take the test again.

Thanks for the advice. Not sure if you saw my previous reply to another poster, but I did take a short Princeton Review class.

I definitely will be working harder for my next sitting, though. I don't think I'm incompetent, just need to learn the test better.