169 and 3.81 Forum

[LeeAllen]

I'm applying to:

Stanford
Chicago
UVA
Michigan
Duke
Cornell
Texas
UCLA
USC

I took the LSAT twice, got a 168 and 169. My heart was set on Stanford, but, I know that given my GPA that was already a longshot. After the December LSAT didn't turn out quite as well as I had hoped, I have all but given up on Stanford and Chicago. I'll send in apps just to see what happens but I'm not expecting much.

Right now, I'm trying to decide whether to take a gap year and retake in June or if I should stick with the numbers I have and go for one of the lower T14 schools. I would prefer not to take a gap year. If I knew that I could get a higher LSAT I'd be more open to taking some time off, but, after the retake in December where I got essentially the same score as September, I'm not sure how much higher I can get it.

Any advice?

[Mullens]

Why are you not applying to Berkeley and Northwestern? Where are you from and what do you want to do?

ETA: I'd retake in June, regardless. After your June retake, you can decide if it makes sense to sit out based on your new score and current offers. Retaking can also help you get in off waitlists or bump up your scholarship.

[LeeAllen]

Why are you not applying to Berkeley and Northwestern? Where are you from and what do you want to do?

ETA: I'd retake in June, regardless. After your June retake, you can decide if it makes sense to sit out based on your new score and current offers. Retaking can also help you get in off waitlists or bump up your scholarship.

Sorry, I meant to add Berkeley to the list.

I don't really want to live in the Chicago area. I feel like Northwestern is more of a regional school and I don't want to stick around that region. Ideally, I'd be on the West Coast (hence schools like UCLA and USC).

I'm from Michigan (finishing senior year at UG) and I'd like to do appellate work after clerking somewhere. Stanford and Michigan both have good appellate programs so those are my top two choices right now.

Retaking in June seems wise. Would schools take that score into consideration for scholarship/admittance off waitlist that late in the game?

Thanks for the advice.

[Clemenceau]

I went 169, 170, 175. It was a rather masochistic experience but no doubt worth it.

You'll still do well with your current numbers, but you'll really have a hell of cycle with a successful retake. You could apply to uchi and stanford with some real confidence.

If youre smart enough to take the lsat and get about 88 questions right, you can polish some things up and get 90+ questions right. I don't buy the argument that 169 is somehow a threshold for you.

[Elston Gunn]

Thinking Northwestern is a regional school, but Duke, UVA, Texas, Michigan are not is laughable. All the NU people here will tell you that California is very doable from there, and it's general outcomes are better or indistinguishable from the other schools I mentioned.

[leslieknope]

.

[LeeAllen]

Thinking Northwestern is a regional school, but Duke, UVA, Texas, Michigan are not is laughable. All the NU people here will tell you that California is very doable from there, and it's general outcomes are better or indistinguishable from the other schools I mentioned.

Roughly 12% of Michigan Law grads stay in the state.
Roughly 40% of NU grads stay in Illinois.

Michigan, at least according to the ABA statistics, does a better job placing nationally.

The difference between the schools I mentioned (Duke, UVA, Texas) and NU is not necessarily that the former are not regional schools, but I'd be content living in those regions whereas I do not want to stay in the midwest.


EDIT: Thanks for the info, Leslie. Are you applying this cycle? I seem to recall you posting in the December Waiters thread.

[Elston Gunn]

Thinking Northwestern is a regional school, but Duke, UVA, Texas, Michigan are not is laughable. All the NU people here will tell you that California is very doable from there, and it's general outcomes are better or indistinguishable from the other schools I mentioned.

Roughly 12% of Michigan Law grads stay in the state.
Roughly 40% of NU grads stay in Illinois.

Michigan, at least according to the ABA statistics, does a better job placing nationally.

Is this a joke? You're impressed that Michigan happens to be be in a state with no legal market to speak of? You think it's a bad thing that NU places very well in one of the toughest and most desirable markets (Chicago) in the country? You are very, very badly misreading those statistics. Apply to NW.

[leslieknope]

Thinking Northwestern is a regional school, but Duke, UVA, Texas, Michigan are not is laughable. All the NU people here will tell you that California is very doable from there, and it's general outcomes are better or indistinguishable from the other schools I mentioned.

Roughly 12% of Michigan Law grads stay in the state.
Roughly 40% of NU grads stay in Illinois.

Michigan, at least according to the ABA statistics, does a better job placing nationally.

The difference between the schools I mentioned (Duke, UVA, Texas) and NU is not necessarily that the former are not regional schools, but I'd be content living in those regions whereas I do not want to stay in the midwest.


EDIT: Thanks for the info, Leslie. Are you applying this cycle? I seem to recall you posting in the December Waiters thread.

Yup. Not super happy with my LSAT either, but I figure I don't have much to lose if I apply and decide to reapply next cycle if I don't like my offers. Right now I'm debating between sprinting towards a Feb retake or aiming for June. Good luck, man.

[LeeAllen]

Thinking Northwestern is a regional school, but Duke, UVA, Texas, Michigan are not is laughable. All the NU people here will tell you that California is very doable from there, and it's general outcomes are better or indistinguishable from the other schools I mentioned.

Roughly 12% of Michigan Law grads stay in the state.
Roughly 40% of NU grads stay in Illinois.

Michigan, at least according to the ABA statistics, does a better job placing nationally.

Is this a joke? You're impressed that Michigan happens to be be in a state with no legal market to speak of? You think it's a bad thing that NU places very well in one of the toughest and most desirable markets (Chicago) in the country? You are very, very badly misreading those statistics. Apply to NW.

Well, I don't mean to use this thread to get into a debate with you. I understand that Michigan sucks (by that I mean the market), and, I am going to leave. I also don't really want to stay in the Chicago area for a variety of reasons. Northwestern is an excellent school and I am by no means disparaging its quality. I know that it is especially good if one has an interest in business/corporate law.

The fact of the matter is, more people from Michigan leave their state than leave Illinois. That's the statistic I am interested in.

Perhaps I'll apply.

[foles]

.

[Elston Gunn]

Thinking Northwestern is a regional school, but Duke, UVA, Texas, Michigan are not is laughable. All the NU people here will tell you that California is very doable from there, and it's general outcomes are better or indistinguishable from the other schools I mentioned.

Roughly 12% of Michigan Law grads stay in the state.
Roughly 40% of NU grads stay in Illinois.

Michigan, at least according to the ABA statistics, does a better job placing nationally.

Is this a joke? You're impressed that Michigan happens to be be in a state with no legal market to speak of? You think it's a bad thing that NU places very well in one of the toughest and most desirable markets (Chicago) in the country? You are very, very badly misreading those statistics. Apply to NW.

LOL just checked your links. Even if you assume the max possible Michigan kids went to Cali (it's not in the top 3 locations); NU still places a higher percentage in CA. Also sent a higher percentage to New York.

[Elston Gunn]

The fact of the matter is, more people from Michigan leave their state than leave Illinois. That's the statistic I am interested in.

This is like voting solely for the MVP based on stolen bases numbers. Except it makes even less sense than that.

[LeeAllen]

Thinking Northwestern is a regional school, but Duke, UVA, Texas, Michigan are not is laughable. All the NU people here will tell you that California is very doable from there, and it's general outcomes are better or indistinguishable from the other schools I mentioned.

Roughly 12% of Michigan Law grads stay in the state.
Roughly 40% of NU grads stay in Illinois.

Michigan, at least according to the ABA statistics, does a better job placing nationally.

Is this a joke? You're impressed that Michigan happens to be be in a state with no legal market to speak of? You think it's a bad thing that NU places very well in one of the toughest and most desirable markets (Chicago) in the country? You are very, very badly misreading those statistics. Apply to NW.

LOL just checked your links. Even if you assume the max possible Michigan kids went to Cali (it's not in the top 3 locations); NU still places a higher percentage in CA. Also sent a higher percentage to New York.

It seems that you are taking this personally: I have nothing against NU. Since you go there I am sure you know more about their placement prospects than I do, and, what you're saying is encouraging. I guess from the statistics I have seen and the people I have talked to, Michigan is very good national placement. The numbers seem to bear that out.

Edit: Apologies, I misread one of your previous posts. Have fun not being at NU, then.

[Elston Gunn]

Ha, I very much do not go to NU, and I am not taking it personally.

[stellina]

At least apply to NU for negotiations. $26 well spent.

[Ramius]

You're reading statistics horribly, and you should really rethink how you approach these statistics. You're awarding UM for not placing well in IL and faulting NU for placing well in its home market. Arguably IL was UM's home market, which would be a hit toward its general placement ability nationwide. Further, considering class sizes are at least nominally comparable, NU matches UM (if not outpaces) in desirable outcomes. Finally, look at how students in the two schools perform in your given desired market, and if it's any significant percentage (let's say >10%), then you have reason to believe those schools place well in that market, especially if it isn't their home market.

So, for those reasons among others, NU=/>UM for wherever you want to place