180 3.2 splitter at t14 Forum

[TDInvilliers]

I'll be graduating in May with a 3.2, took the LSAT in September and got a 180, so I think that makes me a super splitter. No URM status, but 4 years of WE during college including significant management experience, if it makes a difference.
I'll be working for at least the next year as a paralegal at a V25 firm, and my goal is corporate biglaw.
Took three semesters of engineering classes before switching majors, which contributed to the terrible GPA. Hoping the LSAT can make up for it, but what would my chances be across the T14, and where should I target? Advice appreciated.

[PeanutsNJam]

Apply to:

Columbia
Chicago
NYU
Penn
UVA
Michigan
Duke
Northwestern
Cornell
Georgetown

Add a few regionals of your preference. Good luck enjoy law school. I'd expect admits and money at T6, with a bunch of money at anything lower. You don't have a shot at HYS/Boalt though IMO. But hey it's not like Columbia is TTTT.

[cavalier2015]

if you're going to be working for a year anyways, why not sit out this cycle and apply EARLY for the next cycle? probably better bets for scholarship money. i would really consider ED'ing at Northwestern. With your LSAT and WE, I can see you getting in and they give full rides to all ed accepted people. win win situation.

[runinthefront]

I think I would apply early next year. However, I think LSAT scores in the T14 are rising again, so I don't know.

T4 + Berkeley appear to be out, but everything else is in play.

[PeanutsNJam]

There is a big, big difference between a 180 and a 174 or even a 175, so I don't think that mylsn graph is relevant. A 180 is like a super strong soft and a high LSAT all bundled together. It's a big deal. It's a status symbol.

[ballcaps]

completely agree that a 180 is unique. put together a solid application and cast a wide net.

[eriedoctrine]

Agreed.
Do not discount HYS and blanket the T14.
I think you have a solid shot at HLS imo.

[KMart]

if you're going to be working for a year anyways, why not sit out this cycle and apply EARLY for the next cycle? probably better bets for scholarship money. i would really consider ED'ing at Northwestern. With your LSAT and WE, I can see you getting in and they give full rides to all ed accepted people. win win situation.

This isn't the worst advice, OP. The sample size at 180 is really, really small with your GPA. Congrats on the LSAT. You should have a good cycle regardless of what you do with great chances at scholarships at some great schools.

[RZ5646]

There is a big, big difference between a 180 and a 174 or even a 175, so I don't think that mylsn graph is relevant. A 180 is like a super strong soft and a high LSAT all bundled together. It's a big deal. It's a status symbol.

Really? I've read several times that a 180 mostly comes down to luck and isn't much different from anything else 175+.

For example, look at the guy who founded Testmasters, who supposedly holds the world record for 180s. He's been teaching the LSAT since 1991 but still doesn't score 180 consistently. In fact, since he's founded Testmasters, he's only gotten a 180 on half of his attempts: https://www.testmasters.net/Lsat/Perfection

It's also generally admitted that standardized tests like the LSAT are least reliable at the extreme ends of the bell curve.

Not to say that getting a 180 isn't great, but I'm skeptical of it being a "super strong soft."

[TDInvilliers]

if you're going to be working for a year anyways, why not sit out this cycle and apply EARLY for the next cycle? probably better bets for scholarship money. i would really consider ED'ing at Northwestern. With your LSAT and WE, I can see you getting in and they give full rides to all ed accepted people. win win situation.

Not sure what you mean by the next cycle-- are you suggesting I apply for what would be the class of 2019, or 2020?
My current tineline is to apply early this fall, to start law school in August 2016. Would there be a benefit to waiting another year?

[Rahviveh]

There is a big, big difference between a 180 and a 174 or even a 175, so I don't think that mylsn graph is relevant. A 180 is like a super strong soft and a high LSAT all bundled together. It's a big deal. It's a status symbol.

lol no. 100% wrong. OP do not listen to this guy. schools will treat you like you have a 175.

[Tiago Splitter]

There is a big, big difference between a 180 and a 174 or even a 175, so I don't think that mylsn graph is relevant. A 180 is like a super strong soft and a high LSAT all bundled together. It's a big deal. It's a status symbol.

lol no. 100% wrong. OP do not listen to this guy. schools will treat you like you have a 175.

I agree with this. It's better than a 175 but not by much.

OP I'm not sure how you already know your final GPA but if you're currently at 3.2 put up a strong final semester and get it up as high as possible. It's another benefit of waiting until next year.

[downbeat14]

.

[PeanutsNJam]

Nobody's saying a 180 scorer is "smarter" than a 175 scorer. But you're all nuts if you think a 180 wouldn't raise eyebrows a few inches higher than a 175 would.

Maybe a 180 isn't much better than a 179 or a 178, but there's a gap between 180 and 175.

Although we're all talking out of our asses right now, why not just ask Dean Meeker.

ETA - Just reflect on the ridiculousness of this statement: "A 5 point increase on the LSAT doesn't mean too much."

[03152016]

Nobody's saying a 180 scorer is "smarter" than a 175 scorer. But you're all nuts if you think a 180 wouldn't raise eyebrows a few inches higher than a 175 would.

Maybe a 180 isn't much better than a 179 or a 178, but there's a gap between 180 and 175.

Although we're all talking out of our asses right now, why not just ask Dean Meeker.

ETA - Just reflect on the ridiculousness of this statement: "A 5 point increase on the LSAT doesn't mean too much."

once you're over the 75th percentile, there are diminishing returns
it certainly helps to have a 180 over a 175
but the difference is less pronounced than an equivalent 5 point gain lower on the scale

for example, the difference between a 167 and a 172 is massive

(167-168/3.6-3.8 vs. 171-172/3.6-3.8)

but the difference between 175-180 is less pronounced

(175-176/3.6-3.8 vs. 179-180/3.6-3.8)

175 vs 180 near 25th percentile gpas

(175-176/3.4-3.5 vs. 179-180/3.4-3.5)

175 vs 180 splitters

(175-176/3.0-3.5 vs. 179-180/3.0-3.5)

[Rahviveh]

Nobody's saying a 180 scorer is "smarter" than a 175 scorer. But you're all nuts if you think a 180 wouldn't raise eyebrows a few inches higher than a 175 would.

Maybe a 180 isn't much better than a 179 or a 178, but there's a gap between 180 and 175.

Although we're all talking out of our asses right now, why not just ask Dean Meeker.

ETA - Just reflect on the ridiculousness of this statement: "A 5 point increase on the LSAT doesn't mean too much."

Ok, I overstated a bit - not the same as a 175. A 176+ will give you better chances at T10 schools if you're a splitter. But as you can see above, the difference isn't that big. And a 180 isn't very different from a 178 or 179. It's certainly not a "status symbol" (LOL) as you called it earlier.