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[khaleesiqueen1]

..

[twenty]

GULC, and even that might be a stretch with your numbers. You know the answer is going to be "retake" - three more points on the LSAT will get you ED UVA or regular decision at Northwestern, which are much better options.

[khaleesiqueen1]

Unfortunately not an option . Took it 3 times already - 160 - cancel - 167

[CanadianWolf]

Cornell. Not sure, but a 3.1 GPA from UToronto in engineering may get a little more consideration than expected. Again, not certain, but as an international applicant, your GPA may not be reported to USNews.

[khaleesiqueen1]

Cornell. Not sure, but a 3.1 GPA from UToronto in engineering may get a little more consideration than expected. Again, not certain, but as an international applicant, your GPA may not be reported to USNews.

Why would you say I have a better shot at Cornell although their reported 25th LSAT median is 3 points higher than GULC's?

[earthabides]

Cornell. Not sure, but a 3.1 GPA from UToronto in engineering may get a little more consideration than expected. Again, not certain, but as an international applicant, your GPA may not be reported to USNews.

Canadian GPA's are reported and treated the same as American GPA's

[collegebum1989]

Had similar numbers last cycle with an engineering background, and got into Cornell. I also had a masters and research fellowship, so that may have been a factor. Would say you have a shot nonetheless. Apply to GW also for scholarship options.

FYI if you get a good enough scholarship from GW ($30k+) and interested strictly in patent, GW would be much better option than both GULC and Cornell at sticker. Also if you're EE, you'll be in demand regardless of where you go within T25.

[CanadianWolf]

Never wrote that you had a better shot at Cornell; I just recommended applying ED to Cornell over Georgetown (due to better placement stats).

Engineering GPAs do get extra leeway at some law schools. Also, UToronto engineering is not an easy way to a 4.0 GPA. (Additionally, as an aside not relevant to the current discussion, applicant's GPA may be different when applying to Canadian law schools through the Canadian system. OP: Are you applying to any Canadian law schools ? If so, what is your GPA ?)

[twenty]

This is dumb, and whoever's recommending GWU with a scholarship can't read.

OP, you might get into Cornell with a 167...



...but you also might not. Also, the one acceptance on Georgetown was an ED. Since the 15-17 range schools are fairly GPA whorish, personally, I'd play it safe and ED to GULC. Alternatively, I guess you could ED to Cornell first, let them reject you, and then ED to Georgetown since their deadline for ED is super late.

[CanadianWolf]

OP has 2 years work experience & an engineering degree which should set him/her apart from most other applicants.

[03152016]

out at cornell
probably out at gulc, but who knows what their applicant pool will look like this year
if you're definitely committed to attending ls, i'd set my sights lower

[khaleesiqueen1]

This is dumb, and whoever's recommending GWU with a scholarship can't read.

...but you also might not. Also, the one acceptance on Georgetown was an ED. Since the 15-17 range schools are fairly GPA whorish, personally, I'd play it safe and ED to GULC. Alternatively, I guess you could ED to Cornell first, let them reject you, and then ED to Georgetown since their deadline for ED is super late.

I thought about doing this but I was afraid the one month difference could mean I will be auto-rejected from GULC. Does this look realistic relatively speaking?

1- ED Cornell now (20% chances of getting in) --> if dinged --> ED GULC by end of January (20% chances of getting in)

2- ED GULC now (33% chances of getting in).

[twenty]

Personally, with an early ED to GULC, I'd give you a 70-80% chance of getting in, and maybe a 30-40% chance at Cornell with an early ED. But yeah, ED to Cornell first.

edit> if you still can, isn't there a deadline coming up?

[khaleesiqueen1]

70%! If thats the case, I'm definitely applying to GULC early and to Cornell RD.

I thought Cornell replies to ED applicants by Jan 31, but it turned out they reply by March 1, which I believe is too late in the game for ED GULC.

I think the best thing to do now is to ED GULC and RD Cornell, given the lower 25th LSAT and GPA ceilings and its ED boost reputation But I'm curious why you said 70% for georgetown although LSN stats, and the general consensus here, indicate otherwise?

[03152016]

twenty are you feeling okay

[Arad]

you will probably get accepted to georgetown ED.

70%! If thats the case, I'm definitely applying to GULC early and to Cornell RD.

I thought Cornell replies to ED applicants by Jan 31, but it turned out they reply by March 1, which I believe is too late in the game for ED GULC.

I think the best thing to do now is to ED GULC and RD Cornell, given the lower 25th LSAT and GPA ceilings and its ED boost reputation But I'm curious why you said 70% for georgetown although LSN stats, and the general consensus here, indicate otherwise?

Bear in mind that this website is the equivalent of the partially blind leading the blind. Much of the wisdom here is either outdated or a misconception perpetuated by other people validating it. The advice in this thread is one such example. The data points many people use in order to calculate an arbitrary likelihood of you getting accepted to a school are in many cases dated and do not consider your soft factors (which despite the common sentiment on these forums does matter) or how well your application was put together (which also is critical). The continuous decline in applicants makes admissions to top schools easier and makes soft factors more important.

[twenty]

makes soft factors more important.

Wouldn't a decline in applicants (especially applicants with higher LSATs) mean that schools must be less picky about what "softs" they value?

[Arad]

makes soft factors more important.

Wouldn't a decline in applicants (especially applicants with higher LSATs) mean that schools must be less picky about what "softs" they value?

Assuming law school admissions is strictly a numbers game, probably. Assuming it is holistic, any exceptional characteristic (whether it be a high GPA, high LSAT or interesting background) will be more valuable or so I would assume. Schools want to maintain their reputations and they do that based on the kids they bring in and the alumni they ring out. Someone with an engineering background coming out of a top law school would ostensibly be able to break into patent law easily while still having other options open to him, making the candidate more likely to be successful in the future. Even though his numbers may be low, he will be an investment for the school that would likely pay off assuming he is proactive and isn't incompetent beyond belief... + his tuition can be used to bring in a student who is slightly below the 75th GPA and slightly above the median LSAT.

[03152016]

you will probably get accepted to georgetown ED.

70%! If thats the case, I'm definitely applying to GULC early and to Cornell RD.

I thought Cornell replies to ED applicants by Jan 31, but it turned out they reply by March 1, which I believe is too late in the game for ED GULC.

I think the best thing to do now is to ED GULC and RD Cornell, given the lower 25th LSAT and GPA ceilings and its ED boost reputation But I'm curious why you said 70% for georgetown although LSN stats, and the general consensus here, indicate otherwise?

Bear in mind that this website is the equivalent of the partially blind leading the blind. Much of the wisdom here is either outdated or a misconception perpetuated by other people validating it. The advice in this thread is one such example. The data points many people use in order to calculate an arbitrary likelihood of you getting accepted to a school are in many cases dated and do not consider your soft factors (which despite the common sentiment on these forums does matter) or how well your application was put together (which also is critical). The continuous decline in applicants makes admissions to top schools easier and makes soft factors more important.

it takes a pretty serious lack of self awareness to (a) say using data makes you "blind", (b) and then conclude he'll get accepted based on softs and "how well his application was put together" (wtf?)
you clearly don't know what you're talking about, and i ask that you kindly stop talking out of your ass and giving people bad advice you dipshit

[03152016]

"you'll totally get in
gulc doesn't care about admissions numbers!
they're really looking for the most well-rounded students
trust me, i'm a 0L with lots of anecdotes"

[03152016]

anecdotes and ad comm fluff doesn't change the reality that admissions is foremost a numbers game
softs matter at the margins, it's the exception, not the rule

sorry for the multiple posts, i'm going to be tied up for the next four hours and won't be able to respond so i'm just trying to anticipate the dumb arguments you'll probably make

[collegebum1989]

Numbers matter more than anything else, and beyond that, maybe your ability to be employed - but that's usually mostly based on grades so even then, such a small factor.

I was in your position last year, and I had people telling me that softs mattered, and law schools care about the "entire package". They don't. Unless it's a demographic factor (ex. URM applicant), or one that could potentially bring the school more money (ex. benefactor relationship), or something that can bring media coverage to the school, it won't matter.

GPA and LSAT put you in the range of acceptance, and everything else is a deciding factor between students with similar numbers. There's just too many applications for each to be viewed and evaluated holistically. This trend continues into law school grades, employment, and beyond.

[Phil Brooks]

Numbers matter more than anything else, and beyond that, maybe your ability to be employed - but that's usually mostly based on grades so even then, such a small factor.

I was in your position last year, and I had people telling me that softs mattered, and law schools care about the "entire package". They don't. Unless it's a demographic factor (ex. URM applicant), or one that could potentially bring the school more money (ex. benefactor relationship), or something that can bring media coverage to the school, it won't matter.

GPA and LSAT put you in the range of acceptance, and everything else is a deciding factor between students with similar numbers. There's just too many applications for each to be viewed and evaluated holistically. This trend continues into law school grades, employment, and beyond.

I went to Columbia undergrad, and its pre-law adviser told me that my high GPA would "make up for" my low LSAT score, and that certain law schools "preferred" Columbia grads. Not a word about the primacy of USNWR, the law schools' economic incentive to maintain LSAT medians, the appropriateness of "retaking" and getting work experience. Nothing. Just another paid hack looking to funnel students into paying sticker price.

This website is doing a real public service by informing students of the economic incentives that law schools have and how those incentives drive every single decision they make. Law school admissions, and the entire cottage industry around it, is composed of scumbags who depend on students not having access to this information.

[twenty]

To be fair, potential law students mostly bring it on themselves. "Will I get a boost for double-spacing my personal statement?" etc.

[Arad]

anecdotes and ad comm fluff doesn't change the reality that admissions is foremost a numbers game
softs matter at the margins, it's the exception, not the rule

sorry for the multiple posts, i'm going to be tied up for the next four hours and won't be able to respond so i'm just trying to anticipate the dumb arguments you'll probably make

I'm a 0l with a GPA below every t14s 25th and a 167 LSAT score who was accepted to GULC ED. I'm neither a URM nor do I have significant work experience (I graduated in may). When I asked TLS, I was told their was 0 chance I'd get accepted. After analyzing the situation more and looking at each data point on my LSN (looking only at the past cycle) and assuming a continued decline in applicants (based on slab takers), I concluded that I would without question be accepted to GULC ed, and I was. Looking at a graph and then telling everyone their fate is not only incompetent but detrimental to the futures of those people seeking advice on these forums. Just because something isn't the rule of thumb doesn't it mean it's true.


Georgetown gives a generous Ed boost (despite what that stupid article that shows how ED actually hurts you says)

I'm not saying numbers are irrelevant, but in this applicants case his softs and ED will probably lead to an acceptance or wl (in fact, if it was earlier in the cycle I'd be willing to bet he'd get accepted without question). His numbers are borderline, and Using your own arguments, softs and application quality will be the deciding factor.

OP, if you what to go to georgetown, apply ED and assuming your application isn't completely shit, I think you'd stand a good chance. I can't speak on behalf of Cornel because I neither looked into that school nor would I recommend anyone spend 3 years in Ithaca when they could be in DC, networking their ass off and enjoying DC