2.5/172 splitter Forum

[pamphleteer]

I didn't want to make this thread because I realize this is a pretty extreme split that's hard for anyone to really project outcomes for but I've been wondering if I'm underrating the pull of a 172 in a down year for applications. I applied ED to Northwestern (have yet to hear back, I'm a K-JD with no real WE and a horrible GPA so I'm not holding my breath) but didn't bother with any T14s beyond that. Applied to WUSTL, Minnesota, Illinois and some other midwestern schools. My goal is to practice in Chicago, preferably biglaw, but I know my odds of landing that from any of the schools I'm applying to other than Northwestern is pretty low. Should I throw out applications to a few other lower-end T14s? Should I hope my numbers are good enough to merit a full ride at Illinois then try to transfer from there? Any advice would be really helpful. Thanks in advance.

[03152016]

i think you have a decent shot at nu off the wl
don't go to any school you wouldn't want to graduate from
if you'd only go to uiuc to transfer, don't go
i think you'll get decent offers from minn and wustl

[pamphleteer]

i think you have a decent shot at nu off the wl
don't go to any school you wouldn't want to graduate from
if you'd only go to uiuc to transfer, don't go
i think you'll get decent offers from minn and wustl

I'd be fine graduating from any of Illinois/WUSTL/Minnesota if it's with minimal debt through scholarship $, I'm just wary of my chances at Chicago placement from those schools. Although I guess if my grades are good enough to transfer to T14, I'd have a decent shot at landing Chicago biglaw out of a school like Illinois anyway? I don't know. Anyway, thanks for the response.

[03152016]

wustl threw serious money at heavy splitters last cycle
honestly, if i had the choice between nu at sticker or wustl with a six-figure scholly, it'd be no contest
esp with dat stl col

kinda depends on how biglaw or bust you are
if you really, really want it, you kinda have a hobson's choice

[Rigo]

With Chicago goals, really consider whatever aid package Illinois comes back with. It has the best Chicago biglaw placement of the three non-Northwestern schools you mentioned.
Chances of biglaw out of Illinois are 25-30% so if you truly are biglaw or bust, then obviously do Northwestern. However, I think debt minimization while still having a fair shot at Chicago biglaw might be the correct move here.

Also, don't go to a school with the intention to transfer.
Good luck!

[pamphleteer]

wustl threw serious money at heavy splitters last cycle
honestly, if i had the choice between nu at sticker or wustl with a six-figure scholly, it'd be no contest
esp with dat stl col

kinda depends on how biglaw or bust you are
if you really, really want it, you kinda have a hobson's choice

This is probably a stupid question but is there a good way to get at least a rough estimate of WUSTL grads' employment prospects in Chicago? I imagine the raw data has some selection bias issues in that many want to practice in St. Louis or elsewhere rather than Chicago.

[Kratos]

getting WE to get away from that bad gpa would be a smart move

This is probably a stupid question but is there a good way to get at least a rough estimate of WUSTL grads' employment prospects in Chicago? I imagine the raw data has some selection bias issues in that many want to practice in St. Louis or elsewhere rather than Chicago.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... tion/2013/

[Johann]

With Chicago goals, really consider whatever aid package Illinois comes back with. It has the best Chicago biglaw placement of the three non-Northwestern schools you mentioned.
Chances of biglaw out of Illinois are 25-30% so if you truly are biglaw or bust, then obviously do Northwestern. However, I think debt minimization while still having a fair shot at Chicago biglaw might be the correct move here.

Also, don't go to a school with the intention to transfer.
Good luck!

why do people still say not to go to a school with transfer intents? it seems to be working very lately for thoe who do it and keeps trending harder in that direction.

[Rigo]

With Chicago goals, really consider whatever aid package Illinois comes back with. It has the best Chicago biglaw placement of the three non-Northwestern schools you mentioned.
Chances of biglaw out of Illinois are 25-30% so if you truly are biglaw or bust, then obviously do Northwestern. However, I think debt minimization while still having a fair shot at Chicago biglaw might be the correct move here.
Also, don't go to a school with the intention to transfer.
Good luck!

why do people still say not to go to a school with transfer intents? it seems to be working very lately for thoe who do it and keeps trending harder in that direction.

1) it's still difficult to do.
2) you'll be paying sticker 2L & 3L so it is likely better to either matriculate as a 1L if you can get in or just stay at the initial school with full-ride for the exact reasons you went to it in the first place--debt minimization. It definitely will take a lot of thought if the option to transfer presents itself.

Yeah, some schools have been more willing to take on larger transfer classes, but I think way too many people on TLS plan to do this as naive 0Ls.

E: fixed typo.

[A. Nony Mouse]

With Chicago goals, really consider whatever aid package Illinois comes back with. It has the best Chicago biglaw placement of the three non-Northwestern schools you mentioned.
Chances of biglaw out of Illinois are 25-30% so if you truly are biglaw or bust, then obviously do Northwestern. However, I think debt minimization while still having a fair shot at Chicago biglaw might be the correct move here.

Also, don't go to a school with the intention to transfer.
Good luck!

why do people still say not to go to a school with transfer intents? it seems to be working very lately for thoe who do it and keeps trending harder in that direction.

What evidence do you have for saying people who go to school intending to transfer mostly manage to do it?

[pamphleteer]

getting WE to get away from that bad gpa would be a smart move

This is probably a stupid question but is there a good way to get at least a rough estimate of WUSTL grads' employment prospects in Chicago? I imagine the raw data has some selection bias issues in that many want to practice in St. Louis or elsewhere rather than Chicago.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... tion/2013/

Thanks for the link. I've seriously considered postponing law school to gain some WE but A) I don't really have any promising employment prospects and B) Even if I did have 2-3 years of WE under my belt I doubt it'd be enough for HYSCCN to overlook my awful GPA, right? It's basically Northwestern or bust for me as far as T14 goes regardless of how long I put off law school but, yeah, getting some WE to put on my resume seems like what I should do if I get rejected by them this cycle.

Also does anyone know if an upward GPA trend actually matters? Schools claim it does but ultimately a "consistent" 2.5 doesn't look any different for USNWR reporting purposes from one that's night and day between the first two and second two years of undergrad so I'm skeptical.

[Rigo]

If you wrote a GPA addendum where you talked about things that happened sophomore year that were out of your control and that really made you lose focus on your studies, then adcoms may check to see if your grades dramatically improved in the semesters since then.
I don't think there's that much you can do to get around your 2.5 just because that's very low.

Cross your fingers for Northwestern (though whether it's worth sticker can be debated if it comes to that) and hopefully you do well with WUSTL & Illinois and can pull some decent scholarship money.

As for work experience, it will only help. However, it definitely isn't necessary. It helps during OCI, and that's the main benefit.

[chuckbass]

Your numbers should net you solid money at WUSTL, but I think I'd take NU at sticker over WUSTL w/$$$ if you're Chicago biglaw or bust. You'd need to be top 10% at WUSTL for Chicago to really be much of an option and even then you're still not guaranteed to get it.

Current WUSTL 1L and this is my view based on what 2L/3L friends have said.

[03152016]

B) Even if I did have 2-3 years of WE under my belt I doubt it'd be enough for HYSCCN to overlook my awful GPA, right? It's basically Northwestern or bust for me as far as T14 goes regardless of how long I put off law school but, yeah, getting some WE to put on my resume seems like what I should do if I get rejected by them this cycle.

yeah, i think nu is probably it
maybe a remote chance at uva, worth an app

[PeanutsNJam]

.

[crumpetsandtea]

Honestly, from a fellow splitter (2.8/176) who is currently a 3l at NU, hysccn are not even on your radar no matter what at this point. You should absolutely take a few years off to work to up your chances at NU, ESPECIALLY given your. Career goals. Honestly they are probably your ideal school. You won't get in th rough ED (I believe that requires over a 3.6) but you might get some small money (I did). You should be th inking about how to tailor your app specifically to NU, and part of that is going to be getting WE.

[sublime]

..

[FKASunny]

Similar stats here. Things worked out for me, but I also wasn't Chicago Biglaw oriented. If that's really your goal, take a few years off and apply to NU in two years if you don't get in this year.

(I really liked NU, but didn't get in. Lack of post-grad w/e was likely the reason.)

[pamphleteer]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. This has been really helpful. Some other probably stupid questions: assuming I get rejected by NU, would reapplying in a year or two with no changes to my application beyond additional WE be frowned upon? Do law schools tend to admit re-applicants whose stats are identical to when they were first rejected? If not, would it be a good idea for me to retake the LSAT (I've only taken it once)? Thanks again.

[crumpetsandtea]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. This has been really helpful. Some other probably stupid questions: assuming I get rejected by NU, would reapplying in a year or two with no changes to my application beyond additional WE be frowned upon? Do law schools tend to admit re-applicants whose stats are identical to when they were first rejected? If not, would it be a good idea for me to retake the LSAT (I've only taken it once)? Thanks again.

It wouldn't be frowned upon at all. You could consider retaking if you feel like you could do better, though.