Can I break top 14? What about top 25-30? Forum

[top14dreamer]

This Spring I graduate with a Bachelor of Science in Business Administration (econ major). Have wanted to go to law school since 2010, and, in addition get into the best school I can. There are some aspects with my records that make me feel admission to a competitive school is strong, and then other factors that make it seem very unpromising. Based on my pros and cons what do you think in terms of my chances?


Positive Stats:

1). Took the LSAT (one time). Received a 177 score.

2). Had my LSAC gpa computed, which isnt competitive (but not abysmal either) ... 3.055 gpa

3). Work experience while in undergrad

4). extreme volunteer service and extracurriculars


Negatives:

1). Have many Ws, due to depression and some other health issues

2). Been in undergrad longer then 4 years

3). Have a messy transcript with Ws, and a few Ds and Fs, splattered here and there, but (3.055 gpa)

4). Have semester warning printed on transcript a few semesters (which isnt probation, just means the gpa that term wasnt decent)

Based on the negatives, and the 3.055/177 LSAT, what are my chances at any decent schools, should I apply early (September 2014) in the cycle ???

[bombaysippin]

I don't think anyone can accurately try and tell you what could happen your cycle. Great LSAT score though.

I think you'll definitely snag at least one T14 (prolly more than a few).

[arklaw13]

Apply everywhere and see what happens. If I were you I'd ED Northwestern for a shot at their full scholarship. I can't remember off the top of my head what their GPA floor usually is for that though.

[valen]

3). Have a messy transcript with Ws, and a few Ds and Fs, splattered here and there, but (3.055 gpa)

4). Have semester warning printed on transcript a few semesters (which isnt probation, just means the gpa that term wasnt decent)

Based on the negatives, and the 3.055/177 LSAT, what are my chances at any decent schools, should I apply early (September 2014) in the cycle ???

OP did you go to multiple schools? I'm in a similar predicament but if LSAC takes my other transcript GPA's into account I'll be in a better position. The school that awarded me my degree did not take my previous grades into account when computing. Just curious since you said your "computed" GPA.

[yomisterd]

Sounds like you can definitely addendum that GPA. If you were struggling with medical issues and/or depression, I think it's worth writing an addendum for the 4+ years in UG and the mediocre (for law school) GPA. I would say you definitely have a shot at T14, although splitter af.

Congrats on that great LSAT score!

[vinnnyvincenzo]

3). Have a messy transcript with Ws, and a few Ds and Fs, splattered here and there, but (3.055 gpa)

4). Have semester warning printed on transcript a few semesters (which isnt probation, just means the gpa that term wasnt decent)

Based on the negatives, and the 3.055/177 LSAT, what are my chances at any decent schools, should I apply early (September 2014) in the cycle ???

OP did you go to multiple schools? I'm in a similar predicament but if LSAC takes my other transcript GPA's into account I'll be in a better position. The school that awarded me my degree did not take my previous grades into account when computing. Just curious since you said your "computed" GPA.

Not OP, but yes they take into account every grade you've ever had in a college course.

[scoobysnax]

I think you can probably get Cornell and Georgetown. Good luck!

[top14dreamer]

Wow -- Thanks immensely for all the replies. I figured some of my stats might nullify the high LSAT, but at any rate, it helps to know that T 14 (even Cornell or Georgetown) are possibilities. I will apply everywhere and see what happens.

And, to answer someone else's question -- No, I didnt attend multiple schools, just one school. It was probably confusing when I said LSAC computed the gpa, but since they count every grade on your transcript, regardless of whether your school forgives the previous attempt, my LSAC gpa was quite a bit lower then my transcript gpa. My transcript gpa was a 3.38, but counting some of the Ds and Fs, lowered it to a 3.055

[gnomgnomuch]

You'd prob get a couple of t-14's at least. The 177 is literally above every schools 75%. I'd not bother with HYS, CCN would be a crap-shoot, but i could see you getting in, if they need (and they prob would need) your LSAT. The rest of the T-14, you'll have much better odds, except for B, where i wouldn't bother, your GPA is just too low.

I'm not sure but i think one of the Washington school's (possibly WUSTL?) offers a full ride for ED applicants that's akin to NU's which you might be able to snag...though again could be unlikely. Your cycle will likely be pretty weird, though you should have some excellent options, chances are you'd be attending at sticker or close to sticker.

Overall I'd say your best shots are at

1) Cornell
2) GT
3) Michigan
4) Duke/Northwestern/U.Virginia.
5) Apply based on your preferences.

You could always apply to some lesser ranked schools - strong regional's where you have ties and want to practice - and try to get money out of them via negotiations.

[snooze]

Overall I'd say your best shots are at

1) Cornell
2) GT
3) Michigan
4) Duke/Northwestern/U.Virginia.
5) Apply based on your preferences.

Aren't Cornell and Duke considered either splitter-unfriendly or reverse-splitter friendly, if at that, though?

[gnomgnomuch]

Overall I'd say your best shots are at

1) Cornell
2) GT
3) Michigan
4) Duke/Northwestern/U.Virginia.
5) Apply based on your preferences.

Aren't Cornell and Duke considered either splitter-unfriendly or reverse-splitter friendly, if at that, though?

LSP showed an admit for Cornell, and a Consider for Duke. It might very well be the case that OP wont get in, but a 177 does wonders. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he/she gets into one of CCN , and rejected everywhere else, or the opposite of that where no CCN, but in everywhere. Hell, OP can get WL'ed everywhere...OP is a pretty INSANE splitter.

[Ti Malice]

Overall I'd say your best shots are at

1) Cornell
2) GT
3) Michigan
4) Duke/Northwestern/U.Virginia.
5) Apply based on your preferences.

Aren't Cornell and Duke considered either splitter-unfriendly or reverse-splitter friendly, if at that, though?

LSP showed an admit for Cornell, and a Consider for Duke. It might very well be the case that OP wont get in, but a 177 does wonders. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he/she gets into one of CCN , and rejected everywhere else, or the opposite of that where no CCN, but in everywhere. Hell, OP can get WL'ed everywhere...OP is a pretty INSANE splitter.

LSP is almost completely worthless. No reason to use anything other than LSN and myLSN.

[jbagelboy]

You're considered a "non-traditional" applicant at this point due to your WE and bizarre academic record, so none of the prediction websites will do you justice (except maybe some extreme splitter non-trad data points from the past two years on LSN).

Concentrate on breadth - hit from NYU, Penn, and Virginia on down, skipping HYSCCB since they won't look at you with those grades, all the way to GWU and Minnesota - depending on where you want to practice, a full ride at one of those schools could be a good option for you.

[Power_of_Facing]

You're considered a "non-traditional" applicant at this point due to your WE and bizarre academic record, so none of the prediction websites will do you justice (except maybe some extreme splitter non-trad data points from the past two years on LSN).

Concentrate on breadth - hit from NYU, Penn, and Virginia on down, skipping HYSCCB since they won't look at you with those grades, all the way to GWU and Minnesota - depending on where you want to practice, a full ride at one of those schools could be a good option for you.

If you still have another year to bring up the GPA -- work hard and do it. Even getting above the 3.1 threshold seems to make a non-negligible difference:

175-180/3.0-3.1


175-180/3.1-3.2

[top14dreamer]

Thanks everyone for the replies. They have been extremely beneficial.


I also, left out of my initial thread, that I do have an upward trend in grades beginnning in the Fall of 2013. I graduate Spring 2015, so I would like to point out that from Fall 2013 - Summer 2014, I have had a straight A trend, and I will continue that trend until I graduate this Spring.


At the end of the day, I realize the LSAC gpa, is, what is, whether its (what it is currently 3.055), or if It does get raised to a 3.1. But, another question, Say you end up with a 3.1 or 3.2, but you have a straight A trend the last two years, along with the 177 LSAT, could that upward trend help in some of the Top 14s (lower ones) like Duke that seem to favor gpa over LSAT?

[chuckbass]

I'm not sure but i think one of the Washington school's (possibly WUSTL?) offers a full ride for ED applicants that's akin to NU's which you might be able to snag...though again could be unlikely. Your cycle will likely be pretty weird, though you should have some excellent options, chances are you'd be attending at sticker or close to sticker.

GW has the full-ride ED, but I definitely don't think OP should ED GW. That 177 could get him some nice results within the T14 and a little $, while once he gets past the T14 that 177 could already get him some big $$$ at GW anyways (definitely big $$$ at WUSTL) so it's definitely not worth limiting his options for little benefit.

[gnomgnomuch]

I'm not sure but i think one of the Washington school's (possibly WUSTL?) offers a full ride for ED applicants that's akin to NU's which you might be able to snag...though again could be unlikely. Your cycle will likely be pretty weird, though you should have some excellent options, chances are you'd be attending at sticker or close to sticker.

GW has the full-ride ED, but I definitely don't think OP should ED GW. That 177 could get him some nice results within the T14 and a little $, while once he gets past the T14 that 177 could already get him some big $$$ at GW anyways (definitely big $$$ at WUSTL) so it's definitely not worth limiting his options for little benefit.

You'd def know better, I'm an 0L, though depending on what he wants to do with his JD, a full ride at GW doesn't seem like such a bad outcome, though some money at a t-14 (depending on the T-14) would prob be objectively better.

Regarding grade trends, they're better when they're upward, and they might make the difference in identical candidates, but otherwise it seems TLS wisdom says your GPA is your GPA and you shouldn't perform too much above your numbers.

Is it possible for you to get a retroactive withdrawal? If you have a legitimate medical reason, you might be able to pull it off, I've read about it on here anecdotally.

[valen]

3). Have a messy transcript with Ws, and a few Ds and Fs, splattered here and there, but (3.055 gpa)

4). Have semester warning printed on transcript a few semesters (which isnt probation, just means the gpa that term wasnt decent)

Based on the negatives, and the 3.055/177 LSAT, what are my chances at any decent schools, should I apply early (September 2014) in the cycle ???

OP did you go to multiple schools? I'm in a similar predicament but if LSAC takes my other transcript GPA's into account I'll be in a better position. The school that awarded me my degree did not take my previous grades into account when computing. Just curious since you said your "computed" GPA.

Not OP, but yes they take into account every grade you've ever had in a college course.

Hallelujah!

[daleearnhardt123]

OP : you need to investigate retro withdrawal. I know people who have pulled it off for non-"my parents died" reasons. Usually it will entail removing one semester completely from your transcript. This may leave you short on credits for graduation, but making those up over winter or summer shouldn't be a dealbreaker if you pull this off.

[Tiago Splitter]

hit from NYU, Penn, and Virginia on down, skipping HYSCCB since they won't look at you with those grades, all the way to GWU and Minnesota - depending on where you want to practice, a full ride at one of those schools could be a good option for you.

I don't think Columbia is out of the question, especially because OP has another year of undergrad left.

Get straight A's, get the GPA up over 3.2, further distance yourself from the poor semesters, and you'll be in good shape.