3.3 GPA, 171 LSAT - Scholarships?/What is my reach school? Forum

[BananaSplit626]

Hi all,

I have been lurking for a while and have enjoyed all of the discussion.

I've read pretty much every thread in this section and been on MyLSN and LawSchoolNumbers, etc. However, I still wanted to get some feedback from real, live people.

When I decided to pursue law school, I told myself I didn't want to pay for it. That obviously eliminates a lot of the top tier schools. Since taking the LSAT, I've considered going somewhere worthwhile for less than full ride, but will not pay sticker anywhere.

If you would be so kind, what should be my reach school(s)? And what school(s) do you think I have the best chance at a full ride (if anywhere)?

3.3 GPA
171 LSAT
Average LORs and soft factors
Non-URM
Open to Biglaw if attainable, but not dead set

[TLSModBot]

GULC evening student here: 3.3 GPA and 173 LSAT - got in to GULC easy (and you would likely too with your numbers). Didn't get any $$, but that was probably due to being an evening student - no opportunities for scholarships for some bizarre and upsetting reason. I don't think you'd get a full ride at any of the T14, but I imagine you could get some love at GULC and NU (especially if you have some working experience). Not sure about UVA or Cornell but would guess they are possibilities as well.

If you are open to the DC area, one school you might want to consider is George Washington (I know, a GULC student recommending a regional rival?). While "only" ranked at 20 or so, they generally have some pretty strong hiring numbers and are more likely to give you $$. American University (my undergrad alma mater) is ranked somewhere in the 50's but will likely give you a full ride. I am skeptical as to their ability to place grads in BigLaw, but in smaller firms and public sector areas I bet they've staked out something decent for strong performers.

[BananaSplit626]

Thanks for the response!

I'm not expecting a full ride at T14 by any stretch of the imagination, just getting in would be an accomplishment for me. I think I'd be willing to consider any region, but DC would be pretty cool. I have been looking at GW, and wondering if ED there would be a good option.

[Mullens]

Thanks for the response!

I'm not expecting a full ride at T14 by any stretch of the imagination, just getting in would be an accomplishment for me. I think I'd be willing to consider any region, but DC would be pretty cool. I have been looking at GW, and wondering if ED there would be a good option.

If you're gonna ED it should be to Northwestern. I think it's the same scholarship amount as GW and you're more likely to get bigger money from GW during regular decision than NU if it comes to that.

[Ti Malice]

Your GPA is too low to get a great deal of money at the T14, unfortunately. You could get some, or you could get none at all. A few people with your numbers who have reported results have gotten $30-45K at Michigan, UVA, Northwestern and from $30-60K at Cornell this cycle. One person with exactly your numbers got $112.5K at Georgetown, but that appears to be a highly anomalous outcome; the only other person with your numbers to receive any money got $20K, and he was a Marine Corps officer. And again, be aware that these are maximums. Plenty of people receive less or nothing.

You could receive huge amounts of money from WUSTL and Minnesota, but you have to want to practice in the areas in which the schools are located at the very least. Having preexisting ties to one of the areas would be helpful to your employment prospects as well.

[Ti Malice]

Thanks for the response!

I'm not expecting a full ride at T14 by any stretch of the imagination, just getting in would be an accomplishment for me. I think I'd be willing to consider any region, but DC would be pretty cool. I have been looking at GW, and wondering if ED there would be a good option.

If you're gonna ED it should be to Northwestern. I think it's the same scholarship amount as GW and you're more likely to get bigger money from GW during regular decision than NU if it comes to that.

It doesn't make any sense to waste the ED on NU over GW. OP has absolutely no chance of getting admitted ED to NU. His/her chances for ED at GW are very low but probably non-zero. NU will probably throw OP $30K, and even if the ED to GW fails (which it probably will), they'll roll the app over to RD and give OP no less money than he/she would have received by applying RD in the first place.

[BananaSplit626]

Thanks for the input Ti Malice.

I'm really not expecting anything from T14. When I started this quest back in January, my goal was to get $ at a school anywhere from 20-50. T14 was not even in my vocabulary. The whole ED thing is something I'm looking into, just want to make the right play and have a realistic view of my chances.

I'm stuck on the $ thing because I truly don't want to take on more debt. I still have a good amount from undergrad which I finished a couple years ago. I'm sure many on TLS would say to take on some debt to go T14, and that's something I'm opening up to a bit, but still wary of especially since my goal is not necessarily Biglaw. How low do you think I have to drop to see a full ride?

I'd say my softs will be above average (I'm sure everyone thinks that) but not earth-shattering, no C&F issues, and a couple years of work experience. And I'm a "he."

[Ti Malice]

My bad on the T14 rambling. I was reading two posts at the same time, and I got things a bit mixed up and thought you had said you wanted T14.

I'm almost hesitant to say you should go to law school at all if you also have a significant amount of UG debt, because graduating with more than $100K of total debt from any non-T14 school is a scary proposition. I would consider going to most of the lower T14 at sticker terrifying as well, but if you're dead-set on going to law school, going to the T14 that gives you the most money might actually be the most financially prudent decision, depending on your UG debt load.

In any case, you would be in the running for full rides at WUSTL and Minnesota, assuming that they continue to be equally generous next cycle. But you have to be okay with the fact that these non-T14 schools generally place locally. Don't select by USNWR rankings, either. Iowa might be ranked 27th, but no one in, say, Philly cares. Local employers won't care that Villanova is ranked 93rd to Iowa's 27th; someone who wants to work in Philly would be better off going to Villanova. Also, rank doesn't necessarily say anything about placement power at this level. UC-Hastings has been in the 40s and 50s for a while now, but it places like a TTT -- only a bit more than 40% of the class of 2013 obtained jobs as lawyers within nine months of graduation.

Where do you live? Where do you have ties? Where are you okay with living/working? You should use the answers to these questions to guide your search. Go to http://www.lstscorereports.com/state/ and look at the employment data for each school (don't trust what you read on a school's own website). Look on lawschoolnumbers.com at the lists of applicants for these schools and see if people in your numbers range are getting full rides.

Good luck!

[BananaSplit626]

No need for an apology, I appreciate all input and prefer realistic advice to flattery. The debt situation is why I'm looking for a full ride if possible. If that means going to a lesser school than most TLSers would approve of, I'm ok with that.

Law school has always been more of a personal goal and interest for me. Some may point to that very attitude as a sign I shouldn't go, but in the end it's for me and not them. We'll see how it all shakes out, I'm becoming VERY familiar with LawSchoolTransparency and LawSchoolNumbers. Thanks again

[Mullens]

Thanks for the response!

I'm not expecting a full ride at T14 by any stretch of the imagination, just getting in would be an accomplishment for me. I think I'd be willing to consider any region, but DC would be pretty cool. I have been looking at GW, and wondering if ED there would be a good option.

If you're gonna ED it should be to Northwestern. I think it's the same scholarship amount as GW and you're more likely to get bigger money from GW during regular decision than NU if it comes to that.

It doesn't make any sense to waste the ED on NU over GW. OP has absolutely no chance of getting admitted ED to NU. His/her chances for ED at GW are very low but probably non-zero. NU will probably throw OP $30K, and even if the ED to GW fails (which it probably will), they'll roll the app over to RD and give OP no less money than he/she would have received by applying RD in the first place.

You're absolutely wrong about OP having no chances to get ED at NU. Several people this cycle, myself included, were admitted ED with under median GPAs and over median LSATs. This chart shows several such outcomes. It may not be probable, but it's certainly possible. Regardless of where you decide to ED, you should apply broadly to the T20 and try to leverage scholarship offers.

[Ti Malice]

They've always accepted some below-median GPA applicants with the ED scholarship, but they certainly appear to be more permissive on ED numbers than they have been before.

Still, there's only one person on that chart who was admitted ED with less than a 3.5 (JFK with a 3.44). Maybe OP's chances are non-zero, but I'd still say it's extremely unlikely that he'll get in via ED with a 3.3.

[BananaSplit626]

Thanks Mullens,

I know my GPA is going to hold me back, but there's no going back. It's good to hear some anecdotal evidence and I'm definitely going to blanket the T20. I think I'm going to take hard look at schools like W&M, Notre Dame, and BU as well.

[Nekrowizard]

...

[BananaSplit626]

I've thought about retaking, but not sure whether I will. I know every single point counts

[Nekrowizard]

...

[chuckbass]

The best school that you will get closest to a full ride to will be WUSTL.

[BananaSplit626]

If you have some time, it's probably worth it, although I do hear it's pretty difficult to improve in the 170s.

We'll see if I'm up for the challenge. It's hard to not want to, basically free money.

The best school that you will get closest to a full ride to will be WUSTL.

I wouldn't hate this if it ends up being true.

[chuckbass]

If you have some time, it's probably worth it, although I do hear it's pretty difficult to improve in the 170s.

We'll see if I'm up for the challenge. It's hard to not want to, basically free money.

The best school that you will get closest to a full ride to will be WUSTL.

I wouldn't hate this if it ends up being true.

Haha well I'll be a 1L at WUSTL so clearly I don't think it's a bad option.

[BananaSplit626]

If you have some time, it's probably worth it, although I do hear it's pretty difficult to improve in the 170s.

We'll see if I'm up for the challenge. It's hard to not want to, basically free money.

The best school that you will get closest to a full ride to will be WUSTL.

I wouldn't hate this if it ends up being true.

Haha well I'll be a 1L at WUSTL so clearly I don't think it's a bad option.

Yeah haha that's what I was trying to say. Great school

[jk148706]

.

[03152016]

as others mentioned, retaking would help
i retook a 172, glad i did it

apply broadly, use your t14 offers as leverage for $$$ from strong regionals
though please don't get tempted to attend t14 at sticker
that's what i'd do if i were applying with your numbers

[chuckbass]

as others mentioned, retaking would help
i retook a 172, glad i did it

apply broadly, use your t14 offers as leverage for $$$ from strong regionals
though please don't get tempted to attend t14 at sticker
that's what i'd do if i were applying with your numbers

Are you like recruiting for wustl or something now?

[03152016]

as others mentioned, retaking would help
i retook a 172, glad i did it

apply broadly, use your t14 offers as leverage for $$$ from strong regionals
though please don't get tempted to attend t14 at sticker
that's what i'd do if i were applying with your numbers

Are you like recruiting for wustl or something now?

just want to help people make sane financial decisions
with sticker debt, even if you win and get biglaw, you still come out a loser

[03152016]

fortunately sounds like op has the right attitude about this
i only bring it up because many people find
that once they're admitted to a "preftigious school"
it's hard to turn it down
even if they're debt-averse

[BigZuck]

I thought WUSTL gave every incoming student a full ride. Now they don't give full rides at all any more? Not even for 170+? That's crazy.