3.1/176-179 Forum

[drewxgarcia]

Hi folks,

I'm a rising senior applying this cycle, and I was just wondering about my chances for the following schools. I've listed them in order of my preferences:

Chicago (ED)
Columbia
NYU
Penn
Cornell
Northwestern
Texas (I'm in-state)
Gtown
UCLA

Here's my info:

LSAT: I'm sitting for the test in September, but I've been consistently practice testing in the high 170's, so I expect somewhere in the 176-179 range unless I choke on test day.

GPA: 3.1, which is a pretty big stretch away from my LSAT, but my school (Reed College) actually sends out disclaimers with our transcripts because grades are so deflated. Here it is for the curious: http://www.reed.edu/registrar/pdfs/grades.pdf. The relevant section reads: "The average GPA for all students in 2011–12 was 3.11 on a 4.00 scale. This figure has scarcely changed in the past 28 years. Reed has experienced little or no grade inflation. During that period, only ten students have graduated from Reed with perfect 4.00 grade averages." So I'm wondering: will this make any difference with regards to how schools look at my transcript? I genuinely have no idea how much it'll count, if at all.

Softs: I'm a Latino applicant, and a member of my school's Latino Student Union. I also was elected by the student body to edit the school newspaper for two consecutive terms. I've had a summer internship doing PR/marketing, but I don't expect any of these these experiences will mean much. I think that the only soft factor I have really have going for me is that I'm a Latino applicant. I've also verified that I'll have excellent rec letters.


P.S. I'm wondering if I should address the grades in the personal statement?

[francesfarmer]

Come back when you have a real LSAT.

[Dr.Zer0]

LSAT: I'm sitting for the test in September, but I've been consistently practice testing in the high 170's, so I expect somewhere in the 176-179 range unless I choke on test day.

People really can't give you advice until you have a real LSAT score. In the meantime play with mylsn.info or lawschoolnumbers.com

What type of Latino are you?

[drewxgarcia]

LSAT: I'm sitting for the test in September, but I've been consistently practice testing in the high 170's, so I expect somewhere in the 176-179 range unless I choke on test day.

People really can't give you advice until you have a real LSAT score. In the meantime play with mylsn.info or lawschoolnumbers.com

What type of Latino are you?

Mexican-American. The issue with LSN is that I have no idea whether or not my GPA is genuinely comparable given my school's grading policy. It might be, but I just don't know-- grad schools empirically have taken the deflated grades from my school pretty seriously; 1 in 4 students from my school will go on to get a PhD, and we output to pretty prestigious PhD programs. However, I'm not sure that law schools view a transcript from my school in the same kind of favorable light.

[Dr.Zer0]

LSAT: I'm sitting for the test in September, but I've been consistently practice testing in the high 170's, so I expect somewhere in the 176-179 range unless I choke on test day.

People really can't give you advice until you have a real LSAT score. In the meantime play with mylsn.info or lawschoolnumbers.com

What type of Latino are you?

Mexican-American. The issue with LSN is that I have no idea whether or not my GPA is genuinely comparable given the school that I go to. It might be, but I just don't know.

Ok you'll get some boost for being MA. I agree with the post below in regards to how your school being known for grade deflation (unless you go to Princeton or some sort of military academy?) won't be a boost in law school.

Also, don't address the situation about your grades on your GPA. Use and addendum for that.

ETA: OP updated post.

[francesfarmer]

LSAT: I'm sitting for the test in September, but I've been consistently practice testing in the high 170's, so I expect somewhere in the 176-179 range unless I choke on test day.

People really can't give you advice until you have a real LSAT score. In the meantime play with mylsn.info or lawschoolnumbers.com

What type of Latino are you?

Mexican-American. The issue with LSN is that I have no idea whether or not my GPA is genuinely comparable given my school's grading policy. It might be, but I just don't know-- grad schools empirically have taken the deflated grades from my school pretty seriously; 1 in 4 students from my school will go on to get a PhD, and we output to pretty prestigious PhD programs. However, I'm not sure that law schools view a transcript from my school in the same kind of favorable light.

Law school is nothing like PhD programs. You probably won't see any kind of boost. Sorry.

[drewxgarcia]

LSAT: I'm sitting for the test in September, but I've been consistently practice testing in the high 170's, so I expect somewhere in the 176-179 range unless I choke on test day.

People really can't give you advice until you have a real LSAT score. In the meantime play with mylsn.info or lawschoolnumbers.com

What type of Latino are you?

Mexican-American. The issue with LSN is that I have no idea whether or not my GPA is genuinely comparable given the school that I go to. It might be, but I just don't know.

Ok you'll get some boost for being MA. What do you mean by comparable GPA? A GPA is a GPA. Your GPA will, for the most part, be looked at same way whether its from a state school or an top 25 undergrad.

Also, don't address the situation about your grades on your GPA. Use and addendum for that.

I would agree with you were it not for the fact that my school actually sends a disclaimer with all transcripts to inform admissions committees that they should look at my transcript in a different light.

I guess what I'm really asking is whether or not the disclaimer will make a substantive difference in the evaluation process. Here it is if you want to have a look: http://www.reed.edu/registrar/pdfs/grades.pdf.

[francesfarmer]

It won't make a difference.

Law schools will have to report your 3.1 in their admissions statistics just like they have to report every other 3.1. 3.1 from Reed <<<<< 3.2 from U of O.

[papercut]

francesfarmer's posts are right on.

[njdevils2626]

People really can't give you advice until you have a real LSAT score. In the meantime play with mylsn.info or lawschoolnumbers.com

What type of Latino are you?

Mexican-American. The issue with LSN is that I have no idea whether or not my GPA is genuinely comparable given the school that I go to. It might be, but I just don't know.

Ok you'll get some boost for being MA. What do you mean by comparable GPA? A GPA is a GPA. Your GPA will, for the most part, be looked at same way whether its from a state school or an top 25 undergrad.

Also, don't address the situation about your grades on your GPA. Use and addendum for that.

I would agree with you were it not for the fact that my school actually sends a disclaimer with all transcripts to inform admissions committees that they should look at my transcript in a different light.

I guess what I'm really asking is whether or not the disclaimer will make a substantive difference in the evaluation process. Here it is if you want to have a look: http://www.reed.edu/registrar/pdfs/grades.pdf.

To answer your question as directly as possible: it won't. Schools likely won't even read the disclaimer that is sent, but even if they do all they will see is that your GPA puts you at the median for your undergrad. That doesn't really scream grade deflation to me

[drewxgarcia]

To answer your question as directly as possible: it won't. Schools likely won't even read the disclaimer that is sent, but even if they do all they will see is that your GPA puts you at the median for your undergrad. That doesn't really scream grade deflation to me

Well, I am grade-deflated relative to schools like Harvard that hand out an average undergraduate GPA of 3.7, but that's neither here nor there. Given that I'm probably not gonna see any boost GPA-wise, I'm wondering how I stack up for the schools I'm shooting for?

[papercut]

To answer your question as directly as possible: it won't. Schools likely won't even read the disclaimer that is sent, but even if they do all they will see is that your GPA puts you at the median for your undergrad. That doesn't really scream grade deflation to me

Well, I am grade-deflated relative to schools like Harvard that hand out an average undergraduate GPA of 3.7, but that's neither here nor there. Given that I'm probably not gonna see any boost GPA-wise, I'm wondering how I stack up for the schools I'm shooting for?

Yeah the undergrads at Harvard also have a median LSAT at around 163.

[francesfarmer]

To answer your question as directly as possible: it won't. Schools likely won't even read the disclaimer that is sent, but even if they do all they will see is that your GPA puts you at the median for your undergrad. That doesn't really scream grade deflation to me

Well, I am grade-deflated relative to schools like Harvard that hand out an average undergraduate GPA of 3.7, but that's neither here nor there. Given that I'm probably not gonna see any boost GPA-wise, I'm wondering how I stack up for the schools I'm shooting for?

For that, you need an LSAT score, which you do not yet have. Go study.

FWIW I was PT-ing in the high 170s both times I took the test and I got, like many points lower than that without choking.

[Pneumonia]

If anyone is going to get some GPA sympathy it will be you. I've heard adcoms at panels and fairs mention Reed specifically as a school that they give a little more leniency to, so they say it at least. Doesn't mean they do it. Def don't be expecting to perform like you have 3.5 or whatever, but I think you can have a little more hope than a state U grad with a 3.1 in sociology.

[francesfarmer]

If anyone is going to get some GPA sympathy it will be you. I've heard adcoms at panels and fairs mention Reed specifically as a school that they give a little more leniency to, so they say it at least. Doesn't mean they do it. Def don't be expecting to perform like you have 3.5 or whatever, but I think you can have a little more hope than a state U grad with a 3.1 in sociology.

I think you will be looked upon more favorably than someone with a 3.1 from another school, but that's probably as far as it will go.

[jkhalfa]

but my school (Reed College) actually sends out disclaimers with our transcripts because grades are so deflated. Here it is for the curious: http://www.reed.edu/registrar/pdfs/grades.pdf. The relevant section reads: "The average GPA for all students in 2011–12 was 3.11 on a 4.00 scale.

Is that really considered dramatic grade deflation? My UG's median GPA is within a couple hundredths of 3.0, and they don't pride themselves on deflating grades.

[Pneumonia]

Probably true. Unfortunate though.

[papercut]

If anyone is going to get some GPA sympathy it will be you. I've heard adcoms at panels and fairs mention Reed specifically as a school that they give a little more leniency to, so they say it at least. Doesn't mean they do it. Def don't be expecting to perform like you have 3.5 or whatever, but I think you can have a little more hope than a state U grad with a 3.1 in sociology.

My UG is one of these schools that gets mentioned for GPA sympathy. We have median LSAT at 160-ish, and our median GPA is 3.0-ish.

I didn't outperform my numbers in terms of admissions, but I did get much higher scholarship offers than the LSN data suggested I would.

However, I also had some interesting softs, so it's not easy to make inferences.

My personal takeaway is that it doesn't make much of a difference with admissions.

[Pneumonia]

Sounds right, scholarship considerations make sense.