Advice on Reapplying Years After Bad Cycle Forum

[prorsumedude]

This is long and I'm a bit all over the place here, but if you're bored and think you have some good advice, I'd appreciate it.

General summary: I applied to law school a few years ago and didn't do so hot. Now want to reapply. Where do you see problems for me? General thoughts on this decision? I'm fairly set on reapplying so please no "don't do it, blah blah blah". I'm looking for feedback on how my situation could affect my cycle and what I can do to address inconsistencies/weaknesses.

General stats
- early 30s non-URM.
- UG GPA: 2.85
- 2009 LSAT: Cancelled score
- 2010 LSAT: mid/high 150s
- 2010 LSAT: 160
- Likely taking Sept 2014 LSAT...
- Average work experience in the US and abroad, but nothing extraordinary.
- A couple of decent softs.
- Non-URM, but strong diversity statement (race/sexual orientation/upbringing).
- $/debt is a consideration, but debt isn't a huge concern right now.

Cycle Notes:
For first cycle, WL (rejected) at Loyola Law School, Admit at Santa Clara ($), Admit at Southwestern ($). Didn't attend.
For second cycle, sent in essentially the same app to just Loyola Law School and was rejected

History and Questions...
I applied to law school back in the Fall/Winter of 2010/2011 (and to just Loyola in 2011/2012) and didn't accept offers anywhere. With my GPA/LSAT, I was really surprised to get WLed at Loyola since my LSAT was at their 50% and GPA well below their 25% (LSP says 15%), so not 100% sure what on my app stood out to them. Ultimately didn't get off the waitlist though. Reapplied the following year, but was rejected.

After discussing the situation with my then SO (at the time, just starting Big Law in NYC and hating it...so maybe influenced my decision?) and seeing how poorly the law market was, I decided law school wasn't for me and gave up on the dream.

Now 3-4 years later I still can't shake wanting to go to law school and being a lawyer. I have explored several professional areas of interest and none have been as fulfilling as I would like. I know I'm on the older side and the market still isn't ideal, but I would rather take the risk than live with the regret.

Also, I'm not sure how much this will affect things, but about a year ago I was diagnosed with pretty significant ADHD/ADD. This diagnosis explains much of my past (jumping around jobs, reckless behavior (nothing on the books), depression, etc.) and I believe it influenced my academic performance in the past. I don't plan on requesting any sort of allowances for the LSAT or school as I'm on meds and have generally found ways to work with/around my ADHD and related issues. Personally and professionally I have flourished since my diagnosis (job promotions, ability to focus has gone up, taken a couple of online classes and done well) so it gives me hope that an LSAT retake could turn out well. My LSAT PT scores ranged 159-163, with pretty significant studying (for what I was capable of at the time). Downside...I've already sat for the LSAT 3 times and have 2 scores on my record.

I'm from the LA area, so I feel Loyola is a good option for me and is the most attainable "reach" school. Although their ranking has tumbled significantly since I applied...so I don't know. Will applying a third time hurt me? Is a 3rd LSAT score (and 4th take) going to be a major factor? At what point is it worth the retake? If I can solidly score 163 on practice tests, is it worth it? Would a 165+ be more of a goal/cut-off for a potential retake?

What other things do I need to address? How much should I incorporate my ADHD into my app? I don't want to use it as a crutch, but if I can use it to explain why I may have underperformed in the past, is it worth it or will it just come across as an excuse? I didn't write any addenda in my apps when I applied before, since at the time I didn't feel like I had an reason for why I didn't do well.

I hope this doesn't get lost in the shuffle! Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

EDIT: fudged some info to protect my identity at the suggestion of another user.

[d cooper]

I'm from the LA area, so I feel Loyola is a good option for me and is the most attainable "reach" school. Although their ranking has tumbled significantly since I applied...so I don't know. Will applying a third time hurt me? Is a 3rd LSAT score (and 4th take) going to be a major factor? At what point is it worth the retake? If I can solidly score 163 on practice tests, is it worth it? Would a 165+ be more of a goal/cut-off for a potential retake?

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/loyola-la/2013/

Retaking the LSAT is absolutely the right choice, and it will only help your cycle. Even a 163 would help, but you should aim higher.

If you're prepared to stomach the risk of attending Loyola for three years and ending up unemployed (as half the class does), then you should only attend with a substantial scholarship. There isn't a ton of data on your numbers, but applicants below their GPA median with a ~169 get an average of $80,000 in aid (see below), so that should be a good starting point for your retake. This could also get you into one of the splitter-friendly T14 schools.

USC and UCLA become slight possibilities at that LSAT range, although historically they tend to deny all candidates below a 3.0. For this reason, the California schools are typically difficult to break into for splitters.

[prorsumedude]

Thanks for the response! I'm trying to be realistic LSAT wise...I would love to shoot for a 169/T14, I just don't know, having studied a solid 6 months or so back in 2010, if that's feasible for me. Will have to get a feel for the LSAT again now that I'm on meds to see how that affects my ability to study and how much I remember from 4 years ago.

Hope you're right about the 3rd retake. I feel like my LSAC file is "messy", what with sending in apps in 2 cycles and potentially sitting for the LSAT 4 times in 5 years, with 3 scores. Should I spend time writing an addendum explaining my retakes and why I'm reapplying or just let my scores speak for themselves and not bring up why I'm reapplying (to schools I applied to before)?

[d cooper]

Thanks for the response! I'm trying to be realistic LSAT wise...I would love to shoot for a 169/T14, I just don't know, having studied a solid 6 months or so back in 2010, if that's feasible for me. Will have to get a feel for the LSAT again now that I'm on meds to see how that affects my ability to study and how much I remember from 4 years ago.

Hope you're right about the 3rd retake. I feel like my LSAC file is "messy", what with sending in apps in 2 cycles and potentially sitting for the LSAT 4 times in 5 years, with 3 scores. Should I spend time writing an addendum explaining my retakes and why I'm reapplying or just let my scores speak for themselves and not bring up why I'm reapplying (to schools I applied to before)?

I can't speak to reapplying, but retaking doesn't deserve an addendum. Multiple LSAT scores generally perform according to the highest score, so practically speaking schools are not bothered by it in the slightest. All else equal, a 169 with four scores will perform better than a 168 with one.

[Clyde Frog]

You need to bump that lsat score up. How were you studying for the lsat? How long?

[prorsumedude]

I took about 25 practice tests and read the powerscore LR and LG bible. Don't 100% remember my study plan, but it was roughly 2 hours a night and 10 or so on the weekends. Did this for 3 months or so leading up to mid/high 150 then 2 months of similar for the 160. My scores on practice tests varied somewhat wildly though. With a high of 163 and a low of 159. My baseline was high 140s I think, so I did improve 10+ points from start to finish.

As for study plan, I loosely followed some of the suggestions on here, but I admittedly struggled with staying focused and maximizing my study time. I also struggled with being able to identify what I was getting wrong and why. I don't think I ever fully grasped the question groups/families. My biggest struggles were RC and LR. Consistently -5 to -7 per section. Staying engaged for a whole RC passage was mentally exhausting. I think I got something like -8/-9 on RC for my 160. I was OK with games though and I think I only did -2/-3 on my 160.

I've since fixed some of my "focus" issues so I'm interested to see how much of a difference that makes. I remember during test day, I would have moments where I would get lost in my head, drift for a few seconds and then snap back and have to remind myself I was working against the clock. Never had a problem "finishing" a section, but my accuracy obviously sucked.

[d cooper]

I took about 25 practice tests and read the powerscore LR and LG bible. Don't 100% remember my study plan, but it was roughly 2 hours a night and 10 or so on the weekends. Did this for 3 months or so leading up to mid/high 150 then 2 months of similar for the 160. My scores on practice tests varied somewhat wildly though. With a high of 163 and a low of 159. My baseline was high 140s I think, so I did improve 10+ points from start to finish.

As for study plan, I loosely followed some of the suggestions on here, but I admittedly struggled with staying focused and maximizing my study time. I also struggled with being able to identify what I was getting wrong and why. I don't think I ever fully grasped the question groups/families. My biggest struggles were RC and LR. Consistently -5 to -7 per section. Staying engaged for a whole RC passage was mentally exhausting. I think I got something like -8/-9 on RC for my 160. I was OK with games though and I think I only did -2/-3 on my 160.

I've since fixed some of my "focus" issues so I'm interested to see how much of a difference that makes. I remember during test day, I would have moments where I would get lost in my head, drift for a few seconds and then snap back and have to remind myself I was working against the clock. Never had a problem "finishing" a section, but my accuracy obviously sucked.

Sounds like there is lots of room for improvement (that's a good thing). Many people take every released test multiple times, so 25 tests means you're just getting started. Check out some of the guides stickied in the LSAT forum.

[Clyde Frog]

I took about 25 practice tests and read the powerscore LR and LG bible. Don't 100% remember my study plan, but it was roughly 2 hours a night and 10 or so on the weekends. Did this for 3 months or so leading up to mid/high 150 then 2 months of similar for the 160. My scores on practice tests varied somewhat wildly though. With a high of 163 and a low of 159. My baseline was high 140s I think, so I did improve 10+ points from start to finish.

As for study plan, I loosely followed some of the suggestions on here, but I admittedly struggled with staying focused and maximizing my study time. I also struggled with being able to identify what I was getting wrong and why. I don't think I ever fully grasped the question groups/families. My biggest struggles were RC and LR. Consistently -5 to -7 per section. Staying engaged for a whole RC passage was mentally exhausting. I think I got something like -8/-9 on RC for my 160. I was OK with games though and I think I only did -2/-3 on my 160.

I've since fixed some of my "focus" issues so I'm interested to see how much of a difference that makes. I remember during test day, I would have moments where I would get lost in my head, drift for a few seconds and then snap back and have to remind myself I was working against the clock. Never had a problem "finishing" a section, but my accuracy obviously sucked.

Try Manhattan for LR, maybe for LG and get the LSAT trainer for RC. You can definitely improve on all three areas. I'm guessing you missed around 25 questions judging from your score so at a minimum I would try to improve by 3 questions on each section. This will bring you in the 168-170 score range and will give you plenty of options with law schools.

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