3.17/174 Forum

[act]

Getting ready to send out apps, I know it is late in the cycle. Decided to apply sometime in October and registered for December LSAT, so I've been juggling work and all this law school stuff since then...hoping to submit apps some time this week but haven't actually narrowed down all the schools.

My stats:

GPA: 3.17 (3.25 school)
LSAT: 174 (no retakes etc.)

Not URM but I am a Pakistani female. I am currently doing my second term of service with an AmeriCorps program in education. I have no letters of rec from professors (they are all from supervisors I've had during my time with AmeriCorps). My personal statement is mediocre at best. I do have an LSAC fee waiver.

Schools:

Northwestern, UCLA, USC, Emory, GW, UW, UC Irvine, UC Davis

Those are some of the ones I am applying to - I'm open to suggestions about other schools I may have a chance at with my stats. I'd like to go to a top 40 school at least but am not ruling out others, especially if I can get money. I'd really prefer to get in this cycle so I'd like to know my chances at getting in/getting money at schools even though I'm applying late.

I am interested in public interest - most likely work around educational equity. I am not sure where I'd like to end up so I would like to attend a school that will provide me with flexibility in where I can find work.

[phillywc]

Where do you wnat to work? What do you want to do?

[whereskyle]

NU is a possibility. They are splitter friendly. UCI, GW, and Davis are likely. The other schools would be lucky to have a 174 for their medians, but I'm not sure if they're splitter friendly. I would recommend that you apply for an LSAC fee waiver. I was awarded one as an AmeriCorps member. With that you can apply to 4 additional schools for free and many others for $25. I'd encourage you to apply to more T14s on the strength of your LSAT. Also, if u don't get a deal you like this cycle, you should be able to ED to a T14 next cycle.

[daleearnhardt123]

Are you certain you aren't a URM? Even if you're not, I'd imagine that your sex/ethnicity would make you very desirable both at law schools and at big law firms. It'd probably be to your advantage to make this a focus of your personal statement

You are aiming way too low. Even if you were a white male I'd say that. Depending on how this URM thing plays out (I'm convinced you're getting a bump being a pakistani female) you are probably competitive at every school sans maybe Yale and Stanford. Blanket the rest of the T-14 and get your apps out IMMEDIATELY.

[whereskyle]

Are you certain you aren't a URM? Even if you're not, I'd imagine that your sex/ethnicity would make you very desirable both at law schools and at big law firms. It'd probably be to your advantage to make this a focus of your personal statement

You are aiming way too low. Even if you were a white male I'd say that. Depending on how this URM thing plays out (I'm convinced you're getting a bump being a pakistani female) you are probably competitive at every school sans maybe Yale and Stanford. Blanket the rest of the T-14 and get your apps out IMMEDIATELY.

I agree with this.

[act]

Where do you wnat to work? What do you want to do?

Public interest, not sure about the specific area but leaning towards education. I don't have a specific place in mind, my big thing is I want to be flexible in terms of what state I eventually work in.

Also I believe that I fall under the Asian category which is not URM from what I've read on this forum.

[phillywc]

Are you certain you aren't a URM? Even if you're not, I'd imagine that your sex/ethnicity would make you very desirable both at law schools and at big law firms. It'd probably be to your advantage to make this a focus of your personal statement

You are aiming way too low. Even if you were a white male I'd say that. Depending on how this URM thing plays out (I'm convinced you're getting a bump being a pakistani female) you are probably competitive at every school sans maybe Yale and Stanford. Blanket the rest of the T-14 and get your apps out IMMEDIATELY.

Simply not true. There may be some small bump (and if you write a great DS, there should be), but she is NOT a URM. That GPA locks you out of HYSColumbiaN. Chi and Penn are unlikely but possible with ED. I'd personally ED Chi or Penn, and blanket UVA on down to GTown.

Geographic flexibility requires the T14.

[whereskyle]

Also, does she have a shot at ED NU next cycle? 150k scholly.

[daleearnhardt123]

Are you certain you aren't a URM? Even if you're not, I'd imagine that your sex/ethnicity would make you very desirable both at law schools and at big law firms. It'd probably be to your advantage to make this a focus of your personal statement

You are aiming way too low. Even if you were a white male I'd say that. Depending on how this URM thing plays out (I'm convinced you're getting a bump being a pakistani female) you are probably competitive at every school sans maybe Yale and Stanford. Blanket the rest of the T-14 and get your apps out IMMEDIATELY.

Simply not true. There may be some small bump (and if you write a great DS, there should be), but she is NOT a URM. That GPA locks you out of HYSColumbiaN. Chi and Penn are unlikely but possible with ED. I'd personally ED Chi or Penn, and blanket UVA on down to GTown.

Geographic flexibility requires the T14.

I have a hard time believing she's not a URM, other than perhaps by some rigid and technical definition that has little relation to the reality of LS admissions and more importantly big law hiring. As someone who recently went through OCI at a T10, I can tell you that the pakistani female doesn't get a "may be some small bump" over the equivalent white male, she get's a mountain of a bump. While this may not be perfectly analogous to LS admissions, one would think that a self-interested LS admissions committee (who wants to make sure its students are hired) would take this into serious consideration.

[tiltedwindmill]

Also, does she have a shot at ED NU next cycle? 150k scholly.

No.

[act]

Are you certain you aren't a URM? Even if you're not, I'd imagine that your sex/ethnicity would make you very desirable both at law schools and at big law firms. It'd probably be to your advantage to make this a focus of your personal statement

You are aiming way too low. Even if you were a white male I'd say that. Depending on how this URM thing plays out (I'm convinced you're getting a bump being a pakistani female) you are probably competitive at every school sans maybe Yale and Stanford. Blanket the rest of the T-14 and get your apps out IMMEDIATELY.

Simply not true. There may be some small bump (and if you write a great DS, there should be), but she is NOT a URM. That GPA locks you out of HYSColumbiaN. Chi and Penn are unlikely but possible with ED. I'd personally ED Chi or Penn, and blanket UVA on down to GTown.

Geographic flexibility requires the T14.

Including Berkeley? I've heard they put a lot of weight into GPA. I just barely cranked out the first draft of my [mediocre] personal statement. Would you say it is worth it to put extra time into writing a diversity statement? Or would sending apps out earlier be more beneficial?

[phillywc]

I have a hard time believing she's not a URM, other than perhaps by some rigid and technical definition that has little relation to the reality of LS admissions and more importantly big law hiring. As someone who recently went through OCI at a T10, I can tell you that the pakistani female doesn't get a "may be some small bump" over the equivalent white male, she get's a mountain of a bump. While this may not be perfectly analogous to LS admissions, one would think that a self-interested LS admissions committee (who wants to make sure its students are hired) would take this into serious consideration.

AA. PR. MA. NA. That is all that they get a bump for. I can't speak to hiring, but any bump from beign Pakistani would be much smaller than a true URM bump, and will only exist with a well written DS... if she gets it at all.

[phillywc]

Including Berkeley? I've heard they put a lot of weight into GPA. I just barely cranked out the first draft of my [mediocre] personal statement. Would you say it is worth it to put extra time into writing a diversity statement? Or would sending apps out earlier be more beneficial?

Good point. Throw an app at Berk if you are very interested in Cali, but understand it is a longshot. They really do love hte GPA.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I have a hard time believing she's not a URM, other than perhaps by some rigid and technical definition that has little relation to the reality of LS admissions and more importantly big law hiring. As someone who recently went through OCI at a T10, I can tell you that the pakistani female doesn't get a "may be some small bump" over the equivalent white male, she get's a mountain of a bump. While this may not be perfectly analogous to LS admissions, one would think that a self-interested LS admissions committee (who wants to make sure its students are hired) would take this into serious consideration.

1) OCI isn't the same as law school admissions. Also, unless you were hiring at OCI, it seems to me there are too many variables to consider (grades, bidding, resume, interviewing skills) to say that a Pakistani female gets a "mountain" of a bump.

2) There are specific underrepresented minorities that get a measurable boost in law schools admissions based on all the data points we have: African Americans, Mexican Americans, Puerto Ricans, and Native Americans. The reasons go back the history of those particular groups and their relationship to the United States (as discussed in various SCOTUS cases). The OP may well get a diversity bump of some kind, but Asians are not underrepresented in law school compared to their representation in the US population the way that the groups I listed above are.

[daleearnhardt123]

Are you certain you aren't a URM? Even if you're not, I'd imagine that your sex/ethnicity would make you very desirable both at law schools and at big law firms. It'd probably be to your advantage to make this a focus of your personal statement

You are aiming way too low. Even if you were a white male I'd say that. Depending on how this URM thing plays out (I'm convinced you're getting a bump being a pakistani female) you are probably competitive at every school sans maybe Yale and Stanford. Blanket the rest of the T-14 and get your apps out IMMEDIATELY.

Simply not true. There may be some small bump (and if you write a great DS, there should be), but she is NOT a URM. That GPA locks you out of HYSColumbiaN. Chi and Penn are unlikely but possible with ED. I'd personally ED Chi or Penn, and blanket UVA on down to GTown.

Geographic flexibility requires the T14.

Including Berkeley? I've heard they put a lot of weight into GPA. I just barely cranked out the first draft of my [mediocre] personal statement. Would you say it is worth it to put extra time into writing a diversity statement? Or would sending apps out earlier be more beneficial?

Unless you're so poor that the application fees would render you food-less for a week (which, I understand may be possible given that you are working for Americorps) you have no reason not to apply to H all the way down. Spend the entirety of a few days writing a good DS. If things dont work out well this cycle, you should just be on your A-game when applications open up next cycle. Don't waste that 174 on the crap schools (sans NU) that you listed in your original post.

[phillywc]

Are you certain you aren't a URM? Even if you're not, I'd imagine that your sex/ethnicity would make you very desirable both at law schools and at big law firms. It'd probably be to your advantage to make this a focus of your personal statement

You are aiming way too low. Even if you were a white male I'd say that. Depending on how this URM thing plays out (I'm convinced you're getting a bump being a pakistani female) you are probably competitive at every school sans maybe Yale and Stanford. Blanket the rest of the T-14 and get your apps out IMMEDIATELY.

Simply not true. There may be some small bump (and if you write a great DS, there should be), but she is NOT a URM. That GPA locks you out of HYSColumbiaN. Chi and Penn are unlikely but possible with ED. I'd personally ED Chi or Penn, and blanket UVA on down to GTown.

Geographic flexibility requires the T14.

Including Berkeley? I've heard they put a lot of weight into GPA. I just barely cranked out the first draft of my [mediocre] personal statement. Would you say it is worth it to put extra time into writing a diversity statement? Or would sending apps out earlier be more beneficial?

Unless you're so poor that the application fees would render you food-less for a week (which, I understand may be possible given that you are working for Americorps) you have no reason not to apply to H all the way down. Spend the entirety of a few days writing a good DS. If things dont work out well this cycle, you should just be on your A-game when applications open up next cycle. Don't waste that 174 on the crap schools (sans NU) that you listed in your original post.

H and Columbia are straight up wastes of money.

[Kimikho]

You probably wouldn't get UW with that GPA. That being said, don't apply to any of those but NU, UCLA, and USC.

What about EDing Chi? I thought I saw a 3.3/171 (?) get in. You said you don't have a specific place in mind, but you seem to be pretty west-coast driven and they do place well out here.

[cron1834]

Are you certain you aren't a URM? Even if you're not, I'd imagine that your sex/ethnicity would make you very desirable both at law schools and at big law firms. It'd probably be to your advantage to make this a focus of your personal statement

You are aiming way too low. Even if you were a white male I'd say that. Depending on how this URM thing plays out (I'm convinced you're getting a bump being a pakistani female) you are probably competitive at every school sans maybe Yale and Stanford. Blanket the rest of the T-14 and get your apps out IMMEDIATELY.

Simply not true. There may be some small bump (and if you write a great DS, there should be), but she is NOT a URM. That GPA locks you out of HYSColumbiaN. Chi and Penn are unlikely but possible with ED. I'd personally ED Chi or Penn, and blanket UVA on down to GTown.

Geographic flexibility requires the T14.

Including Berkeley? I've heard they put a lot of weight into GPA. I just barely cranked out the first draft of my [mediocre] personal statement. Would you say it is worth it to put extra time into writing a diversity statement? Or would sending apps out earlier be more beneficial?

Unless you're so poor that the application fees would render you food-less for a week (which, I understand may be possible given that you are working for Americorps) you have no reason not to apply to H all the way down. Spend the entirety of a few days writing a good DS. If things dont work out well this cycle, you should just be on your A-game when applications open up next cycle. Don't waste that 174 on the crap schools (sans NU) that you listed in your original post.

You should stop giving people advice. You've been OBJECTIVELY wrong on several points in this thread.

[act]

Including Berkeley? I've heard they put a lot of weight into GPA. I just barely cranked out the first draft of my [mediocre] personal statement. Would you say it is worth it to put extra time into writing a diversity statement? Or would sending apps out earlier be more beneficial?

Unless you're so poor that the application fees would render you food-less for a week (which, I understand may be possible given that you are working for Americorps) you have no reason not to apply to H all the way down. Spend the entirety of a few days writing a good DS. If things dont work out well this cycle, you should just be on your A-game when applications open up next cycle. Don't waste that 174 on the crap schools (sans NU) that you listed in your original post.

You should stop giving people advice. You've been OBJECTIVELY wrong on several points in this thread.

Could you point out how/why the advice is wrong? I would really appreciate it!

[jbagelboy]

You may get dinged across the board, and certainly by T14s, without an academic LOR. Frankly, no one gives a damn about your americorps supervisors (sorry to say). They want professors, 2 of them unless you are many years out of school, and you best deliver or you are wasting the $23 or whatever CAS regardless of fee waivers.

Dont blow that magnificent lsat and all the time you spent preparing for it with such a correctable gaping flaw in your application.

[cron1834]

Including Berkeley? I've heard they put a lot of weight into GPA. I just barely cranked out the first draft of my [mediocre] personal statement. Would you say it is worth it to put extra time into writing a diversity statement? Or would sending apps out earlier be more beneficial?

Unless you're so poor that the application fees would render you food-less for a week (which, I understand may be possible given that you are working for Americorps) you have no reason not to apply to H all the way down. Spend the entirety of a few days writing a good DS. If things dont work out well this cycle, you should just be on your A-game when applications open up next cycle. Don't waste that 174 on the crap schools (sans NU) that you listed in your original post.

You should stop giving people advice. You've been OBJECTIVELY wrong on several points in this thread.

Could you point out how/why the advice is wrong? I would really appreciate it!

Wrong about the URM status (check around for the FORMAL definition), wrong about you having a chance at HYSCCN with a 3.17 (check LSN). +1 to the poster above for the LOR comment.

[whereskyle]

You may get dinged across the board, and certainly by T14s, without an academic LOR. Frankly, no one gives a damn about your americorps supervisors (sorry to say). They want professors, 2 of them unless you are many years out of school, and you best deliver or you are wasting the $23 or whatever CAS regardless of fee waivers.

Dont blow that magnificent lsat and all the time you spent preparing for it with such a correctable gaping flaw in your application.

seconded.

[Clearly]

Why do you have a mediocre ps again? Fix that shit, it's entirely in your control...

[Crowing]

I would probably apply to CC anyway but honestly your chance is practically 0 due to the GPA

You have a good shot at the lower T-14 provided the very late app doesn't cost you (it may not as much as it might have in past cycles).

Idk if you say your PS is mediocre because you're being modest or if it really is mediocre. There's really no reason for the latter; if that's the case then get feedback and revise/rewrite if necessary.

ETA: Vandy and WUSTL are two fairly generous schools you might wanna send apps to if for nothing more than possible leverage for negotiations.