3.37/154 (have taken LSAT 3 times) Forum

[barramundi]

Hi, got my LSAT score and I'm pretty bummed. Thought I did a lot better, but there isn't much I can do about that now. I have gotten cancel/154/153, however, I am still fixed on law school. Here is my list of what I had before:

U of SD
Loyola (Los Angeles) (Strongly considering ED)
Santa Clara
U of SF
Pepperdine (?)
McGeorge
Southwestern
Chapman
American

What are my chances at these schools? Are there any others that you guys might recommend? Please assume that I am applying for this cycle, I know many of you probably want to strangle me through your computer screens, and lord knows I deserve it, but any information on my chances would be much appreciated.

[TheSpanishMain]

Stay the hell away from American, especially since you seem to be targeting CA

[barramundi]

Stay the hell away from American, especially since you seem to be targeting CA

May I ask why? I would like to stay in CA, but i wouldn't necessarily die if I had to leave here.

[Nova]

Because only a third of their grads ever practice law

[barramundi]

I've been reading some old threads in American, and yeah, people's opinion of that school doesn't seem to be good. I will be wary in approaching that school, if at all. Anyone have any idea on my chances on the other schools, however? Particularly Loyola (will early decision most likely), Chapman, and Santa Clara?

[TheSpanishMain]

I don't know much about the CA schools or market, other than it's saturated right now. If you choose to go down the tier two/regional path, I think it is ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL that you limit your debt like crazy. Assume you'll end up with a 40k a year starting salary. Now imagine trying to service 200k in debt on that. Can you live with family during law school to save money?

I know many of you probably want to strangle me through your computer screens, and lord knows I deserve it

Chill man. You're not a bad person just because you didn't score as well as you would've liked on the LSAT.

[cotiger]

it is ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL that you limit your debt like crazy.

[barramundi]

Yes, living with family is definitely an option. Thanks SpanishMain for your advice. Fortunately, I can live fairly happily on very little (which is what I will likely have to do very much post-law school, hehe). I don't go out to eat really, cook all my meals etc. and spend much of my time doing activities that cost no monies. (I used to have gym membership, but I find that a little section of my bedroom and some weights I got at a garage sale is enough for my current goals, I run around my neighborhood too sometimes waving around a dead tree branch sword.)

But yes, with any others who have some knowledge of the aforementioned CA schools, input would be much appreciated

[smaug_]

Enjoy lawschoolnumbers.com

(and seriously, just don't go)

[barramundi]

Enjoy lawschoolnumbers.com

(and seriously, just don't go)

Just don't go to law school, you mean?

[cotiger]

Enjoy lawschoolnumbers.com

(and seriously, just don't go)

Just don't go to law school, you mean?

Yes. The school with the best employment numbers of those mentioned is Santa Clara. At Santa Clara, you will not receive a scholarship. Even assuming $0 cost of living, you will take out $150k debt. Approximately 40% of Santa Clara grads secure legal employment after graduation. Only 10% secure jobs that could pay off that debt. This is not a recipe for a happy outcome, no matter how badly you want to become a lawyer.

[barramundi]

Enjoy lawschoolnumbers.com

(and seriously, just don't go)

Just don't go to law school, you mean?

Yes. The school with the best employment numbers of those mentioned is Santa Clara. At Santa Clara, you will not receive a scholarship. Even assuming $0 cost of living, you will take out $150k debt. Approximately 40% of Santa Clara grads secure legal employment after graduation. Only 10% secure jobs that could pay off that debt. This is not a recipe for a happy outcome, no matter how badly you want to become a lawyer.

I appreciate your response, and I will take into consideration your opinion in my decision whether I go to law school or not. However, in regards to the actual topic at hand, I'd like to inquire to anyone who might know about my chances of admission into the aforementioned law schools. Again, thanks

[cotiger]

I appreciate your response, and I will take into consideration your opinion in my decision whether I go to law school or not. However, in regards to the actual topic at hand, I'd like to inquire to anyone who might know about my chances of admission into the aforementioned law schools. Again, thanks

For the last two cycles, applicants with LSATs 152-156 and GPAs 3.2-3.5 were accepted:

8/11 = 73% at Santa Clara
5/20 = 25% at American
4/12 = 25% at San Diego
1/6 = 17% at Pepperdine

Almost every single one of these people are paying sticker and going into more than $200,000 of non-dischargable debt for the privilege of a 40% chance at a low-paying job.

[Nova]

Sticker at all those schools are traps. Paying any tuition at any school from Loyola down is over paying for their job prospects. You probably wont get a legal job coming out of them and you almost certainly wont get a job that pays enough to pay off your student loans.

If you are absolutely sold on attending law school, give up on Cali.

You ought to be looking at TTTs with low tuition like Texas Tech or you ought to go to a TTTT where your numbers are above the medians and where you can get a big scholarship and then drop out if you don't retain the scholarship.

[hephaestus]

Because only a third of their grads ever practice law

Yeah OP, I think that you should wait for a fourth retake or not go to law school.

[Nova]

Because only a third of their grads ever practice law

Yeah OP, I think that you should wait for a fourth retake or not go to law school.

+1

Waiting is definitely the best option

when was the cancel?

[barramundi]

Mm, I see then. I will revise my school list and see what I can get in for this cycle then. If worst comes to worse, I will retake. However, any info on my chances of getting into Loyola LA with an ED? Information on how much ED seems to evade me, however, I would guess it would only be a small boost as best. Information on my chances at Chapman would be appreciated as well.

Thank you all so much for your advice, I appreciate your thoughts and comments, and I will definitely approach this endeavor with debt and job prospects in mind.

EDIT: The cancel was in October 2012, so I would have to wait out until next year, I think? Is this right?

[hephaestus]

I don't think you understand the structural issues here. There are 15-20 thousand graduates every year that do not get jobs. And a school like that has measurably worse prospects than other schools. And you do not get financial aid as an ED in almost all cases. So you would spend 200k on a degree where you have a coin flips chance of practicing law.

[Nova]

Pretty sure you could take Oct '14 then

[cotiger]

I don't think you understand the structural issues here. There are 15-20 thousand graduates every year that do not get jobs. And a school like that has measurably worse prospects than other schools. And you do not get financial aid as an ED in almost all cases. So you would spend 200k on a degree where you have a coin flips chance of practicing law.

The idea of being 200k+ in debt at Harvard makes me uncomfortable. And that's with like an 85-90% chance at a 160k+ paying job if you want it. Being 200k+ in debt somewhere that gives you a 40% chance at a low-paying job should be terrifying, not "I'll consider my options".

Look, OP, I know TLS can sound douchey with talk like this, but have you really thought about what 200k in debt means? You'll be paying 30k in loan payments every year for the next 10 years. Or you could pay 20k/year over 25 years. This on a likely salary of 50k. That is, if you're one of the 40% who actually gets a law job. I guess there's PAYE, but I wouldn't trust the government too much on that one.

Do you have a sizable trust fund or inheritance such that 200k is a meaningless number? If you insist on applying, I hope that's the case.

[TheSpanishMain]

OP, I should mention that I also think retaking/waiting/not going is the best option. Do you have family that is going to pay your cost of attendance? A guaranteed job waiting for you? Otherwise, this is just objectively not a good bet.

Wait a year, and in the meantime, get some work experience. I'll give you the same pitch I gave someone else (not a recruiter, don't get paid for this): consider enlisting in the military for three years. Not only will it give you some time for retakes, but it'll involve some travel, some income, and dat GI Bill if and when you do decide to go to law school.