3.02/146/172 chances? Forum

[optimist1]

i made a post in another forum (Q&A with admissions) and i go no replies so I guess I will ask here.

made a mistake last year. made up for it.

chances?

northwestern maybe?

i'd like to attend t14 but ofc i am aware the top of the line colleges are out of question. however is there even chance for the lower of the 14?

i am not underrepresented minority, i have technology background

[francesfarmer]

Yes to the lower T14. Your 146 won't matter.

[optimist1]

Can you explain what the employment score means?

Is 86% good?

[francesfarmer]

Go to lawschooltransparency.com for employment statistics. Hiring in the legal field is really shitty right now.

[optimist1]

okay I will do that but people will hire someone from northwestern right?

i am worried because the schools near the top are like 10percent better in their score.

[francesfarmer]

Those employment numbers are not gospel. Obviously it would be better to go to a higher ranked school but your 3.02 will hold you back. Northwestern is a great school and tons of people get great jobs coming out of there. That said, do your research so you know what you're getting into.

[optimist1]

i have been reading a strategy for people like me and it says splitters with higher lsat and lower gpa should do an early decision to UVA.

in that thread some ppl talk about ED to upenn as well.

should I ED to nortwestern if i have the best chance there accroding to the graph? i looked on a site called lawschoolnumbers and there are a few people with LSAT close to mine (within a 3 point range) who got into upenn and uva.

there are ppl with gpa lower than mine who got into northwestern.

would you if you were in my shoes ed to northwestern or ed to upenn/uva?

[optimist1]

I looked on LST and it seems like some northwestern students go on to do jobs that "prefer JD" so I'm guessing they do business related stuff and not something related to being a lawyer?

Is the score only for people who become lawyers?

FOr example, Upenn has 97% score, but only 2% of its students go into JD preferred jobs where as 10% from nortwestern go to JD preferred jobs. The bar passage rate is 80% for Northwestern comapred to 95% for Upenn. So confused lol gonna have to spend a week reading about this.

[jingosaur]

I looked on LST and it seems like some northwestern students go on to do jobs that "prefer JD" so I'm guessing they do business related stuff and not something related to being a lawyer?

Is the score only for people who become lawyers?

FOr example, Upenn has 97% score, but only 2% of its students go into JD preferred jobs where as 10% from nortwestern go to JD preferred jobs. The bar passage rate is 80% for Northwestern comapred to 95% for Upenn. So confused lol gonna have to spend a week reading about this.

The employment scores on LST are more of a starting point that you use rather than a way to rank schools. Notice how Yale has a fairly low score, but it's still by far the #1 law school. Northwestern has a very big JD/MBA program and most of the students in that program do not go the legal route. Additionally, a higher percentage of NU students have previous work experience and people with work experience have a better chance at getting a strong JD advantage job. Based on what people say in this forum, chances of getting a good legal job out of NU are about the same as Duke, Michigan, and Cornell. A lot of T14s have high self selection for certain types of jobs and researching more about the schools will give you a better idea of where to apply.

[optimist1]

is the northwestern jd/mba program good?

if i do well on gmat should i apply? i have some management softs as well (studied management and cs)

[dowu]

Curious as to how you made such a big jump?

[Danger Zone]

Curious as to how you made such a big jump?

[optimist1]

i studied harder for the test and did like 10 PTs timed.

when i took it first time i had not studied and i thought i'd get a 160 but i got a really bad score. really poor decision on my part. it is an embarassment i will have to live with for the rest of my life, along with my horrible gpa.

[jingosaur]

is the northwestern jd/mba program good?

if i do well on gmat should i apply? i have some management softs as well (studied management and cs)

The JD/MBA program at Northwestern only considers the GMAT. Their GPA median is usually in the 3.5-3.6 range and the average GMAT is in the 710-720 range. The BIG difference is that the JD/MBA program REALLY cares about work experience and softs. With less than three years of work experience and your GPA, you have a very low chance of getting in. I'm applying to the program in R1, so I'll know more about the admissions process in December when I get my decision.

Also, congrats on the LSAT retake. And to address your other post, definitely check out the deadlines/decision dates for Penn ED and UVA ED. I think it's possible to apply Penn ED and then have enough time to apply UVA ED if you get rejected from Penn, but I'm not 100% sure.

[optimist1]

good luck!

thx

[optimist1]

one more question i read the transferring guide on this forum.

i had significant upward trend in gpa in my last 2 years. im a good student its just that certain circumstances led me to do badly in first 2 years (no, it wasn't due to my negligence it was due to things that happened in my life).

im hoping to at least get into northwestern. i hope they are merciful and take me! however if I do well in first year and get into top 5-10% of the class do you think there is a real possibility of moving up to a better school? the reason i ask is that tbh i want to do law to do public interest. making bank sounds cool but i am happier helping people. I like volunteering and if someone asks me for help i hardly ever say no.

i have read that doing PI is easier from really good schools. would you say my plan is bad? if i get into a school like northwestern i will be happy there. that is certain. i will be lucky to be attending a great school with my horrible stats. however is it wrong to make it a goal to kill first year so i can xfer to a better school?

finally financial aid. i have like i said about $7000 to my name. how hard will it be to take out a loan?

[Danger Zone]

There is a 5-10% chance of you doing that well.

[twenty]

would you say my plan is bad?

Yes. Sorry man.

Full time, long-term PI jobs are insanely hard to pick up right out of law school, even from a top school. Northwestern is notoriously bad for public interest, and their LRAP program is god-awful. UVA is slightly better, but they artificially inflate their PI numbers with 1-year fellowships that pay next to nothing in order to maintain their employment numbers. The number of UVA grads getting great PI gigs is equally astonishingly low.

[francesfarmer]

It's not hard to take out loans for school. The government makes it really easy. You should like, browse this forum before asking every question that comes to your mind. You will learn a lot. Good luck.

[xylocarp]

i made a post in another forum (Q&A with admissions) and i go no replies so I guess I will ask here.

Just for the record, Karen Buttenbaum, former Director of Admissions at Harvard Law, did answer your question on the Q&A thread. Just letting you know so you can go check it out!

Don't be surprised when LSAC comes knocking on your door to ask what's up?
In cases like this when there is a huge jump, the academic record will help the adcoms see where the academic potential lies. If the 146 is an anomaly, it will come across as such in the application. If the academic record is as wildly fluctuating as the LSAT score, then this shows a pattern.
Remember, the schools will report the high score, so congrats on that 172!

[optimist1]

edit: nvm i need to read better haha i didnt see the entire post the person made ._ .

[optimist1]

would you say my plan is bad?

Yes. Sorry man.

Full time, long-term PI jobs are insanely hard to pick up right out of law school, even from a top school. Northwestern is notoriously bad for public interest, and their LRAP program is god-awful. UVA is slightly better, but they artificially inflate their PI numbers with 1-year fellowships that pay next to nothing in order to maintain their employment numbers. The number of UVA grads getting great PI gigs is equally astonishingly low.

Thanks for your reply.

I know this sounds cheesey but I want to do law is to do something worthwhile. I lived in newark and I think if I do law I can make a difference for the ppl here and elsewhere. im not an elite or hot shot and i made a few mistakes but i think if i can get a decent qualification i can get people to listen to me.

can i send u a pm?

[twenty]

would you say my plan is bad?

Yes. Sorry man.

Full time, long-term PI jobs are insanely hard to pick up right out of law school, even from a top school. Northwestern is notoriously bad for public interest, and their LRAP program is god-awful. UVA is slightly better, but they artificially inflate their PI numbers with 1-year fellowships that pay next to nothing in order to maintain their employment numbers. The number of UVA grads getting great PI gigs is equally astonishingly low.

Thanks for your reply.

I know this sounds cheesey but I want to do law is to do something worthwhile. I lived in newark and I think if I do law I can make a difference for the ppl here and elsewhere. im not an elite or hot shot and i made a few mistakes but i think if i can get a decent qualification i can get people to listen to me.

can i send u a pm?

Doesn't sound cheesy per se, but that's definitely not a great reason to do law. Getting a law degree is a tremendously poor and very un-cost-effective way of gaining respect. If all you're looking for is a credential after your name, go get your Ph.D -- it's way cheaper (usually free, in fact), and would probably only take you an extra year or two to complete. Plus, it's way more impressive to tell people you're a Ph.D. than it would be being a lawyer.

Also, if you haven't screwed up too much, go be a military officer instead. It's 12 weeks of being fairly miserable at OCS as opposed to 3 years of school accumulating almost-unimaginable amounts of debt for the privilege of competing against 25,000 other unemployed attorneys. You'll also get far more respect, and you'll have significantly more opportunity to go help people, if that's what you want. Then on top of all that, three years as a military officer gets you free law school, if you really want it then.

You're free to send me a PM, but I'd always prefer discussing things on this thread, because I'm sure other people have similar thoughts and plans to yours.

[TheSpanishMain]

Also, if you haven't screwed up too much, go be a military officer instead. It's 12 weeks of being fairly miserable at OCS as opposed to 3 years of school accumulating almost-unimaginable amounts of debt for the privilege of competing against 25,000 other unemployed attorneys. You'll also get far more respect, and you'll have significantly more opportunity to go help people, if that's what you want. Then on top of all that, three years as a military officer gets you free law school, if you really want it then.

Not to be a bummer, but OCS probably won't be interested with that 3.02. With Iraq over and Afghanistan winding down, the military is actively downsizing and is not aggressively recruiting new officers. Between 2005-2009, they would basically accept anyone with a bachelors degree. Times have really changed and they're much more selective. Most people I know who went civilian -> OCS had 3.5+ GPAs.

[optimist1]

hello all sorry for the bump but i have 1 question.

do u think it is worth the $100 or however much it costs to apply to some of the higher ranked schools? i'm not talking about yale (heck i wouldnt be surprised if the mail office shreds my app on the way there haha) but schools like chicago, nyu, columbia.

do you think i should?