3.33 GPA, 171 LSAT (159 LSAT in 2010) Forum

[catlady2]

Hey!

I am trying to figure out what range of schools to apply to; looking at the data, I am not sure if my reach schools are Top 10, Top 20, or if I should keep going down the list; and what range would be safety schools (they ALL look good!). Looking at rankings (http://www.top-law-schools.com/rankings.html), my GPA makes me feel like nothing is a safety, and all top schools are a reach; but my LSAT makes me want to consider HYS as reach schools.

I am a Hispanic woman, undergrad at Princeton with many extra-curriculars(thus, the 3.3 and not 3.better), and did TFA. I am excited about my 171, but not sure how much the 159 will matter (taken three days after graduation, cold - silly me). I have been looking at http://www.hourumd.com/ and http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com/wp-co ... atcher.htm but am still unsure.

I don't have an amazing back story; very stable family despite some economic hardships; tough transition from Spanish speaking life to Princeton, evidenced by a steady improvement in GPA through time, as well as more rigorous classes - but I don't think I was disadvatanged enough to need to explain myself in an additional segment. That seems like whining. (I went from 3 classes with 2 Bs and a C my first semester, to all A's in an overloaded courseload my senior year, but I don't know if I need to point out that improvement to schools or trust that they'll notice it.)

Currently thinking.... American U and U Houston (safetys), George Washington and U Texas (solids?), UVA and Columbia (reach)...

Any advice? I just don't want to end up applying to twenty schools because I'm not sure if my safetys are safe enough or my Reach schools are too far out of reach.

[akg144]

Well a few things. 1) Yes your GPA is below the median for the best schools but splitters get into T14 schools all the time especially if you apply ED to a target splitter friendly school 2) Your softs are phenomenal -- your a hispanic woman URM who went to the #1 ranked UG institution in the country and overcame language barrier you can definitely craft that into a great personal statement. Lastly, write an addendum for why your GPA improved and LSAT improved. Like you said, you took the LSAT cold -- but when you applied yourself and studied you nailed it. For the grades don't belabor the point cause after all they do have your transcript but if you can paint a picture for them why your grades improved dramatically and how you were able to do it, it certainly wouldn't hurt. Lastly, below are you chances with the top20 schools (including URMs)

http://mylsn.info/aqplos

Excluding URM
http://mylsn.info/62mxih

[bizzybone1313]

Go to the "Rankings/Profiles" tab on this website, look at the T-20 schools on that list and then apply to all of these and no others. And sit back and relax while the acceptances roll in. Forget about U of H and American. Besides LSAT, GPA and URM status, peeps with elite undergrads get a real good bump in LS admissions, especially if they are URM's. You have a legitimate chance at Harvard with that LSAT and undergrad school.

[jbagelboy]

Go to the "Rankings/Profiles" tab on this website, look at the T-20 schools on that list and then apply to all of these and no others. And sit back and relax while the acceptances roll in. Forget about U of H and American. Besides LSAT, GPA and URM status, peeps with elite undergrads get a real good bump in LS admissions, especially if they are URM's. You have a legitimate chance at Harvard with that LSAT and undergrad school.

Bullshit dude. OP has zero shot at Harvard or YS with a 3.3 (sorry OP). the "prestige UG" counts for much less than you say -- it might help a 3.75 candidate. Is this advice for real?

TFA is a solid soft, and I think you can craft a strong application for NYU. That would be the target school for you. Columbia will be tough with below median LSAT. NU and Gtown are guaranteed, strong chance at UVA, Penn, probably out at Berkeley.

[catlady2]

Ooh, thanks! This makes me feel much more confident moving forward...

Is there a list or source for figuring out which schools are "splitter friendly"?

[bizzybone1313]

Go to the "Rankings/Profiles" tab on this website, look at the T-20 schools on that list and then apply to all of these and no others. And sit back and relax while the acceptances roll in. Forget about U of H and American. Besides LSAT, GPA and URM status, peeps with elite undergrads get a real good bump in LS admissions, especially if they are URM's. You have a legitimate chance at Harvard with that LSAT and undergrad school.

Bullshit dude. OP has zero shot at Harvard or YS with a 3.3 (sorry OP). the "prestige UG" counts for much less than you say -- it might help a 3.75 candidate. Is this advice for real?

TFA is a solid soft, and I think you can craft a strong application for NYU. That would be the target school for you. Columbia will be tough with below median LSAT. NU and Gtown are guaranteed, strong chance at UVA, Penn, probably out at Berkeley.

She is Hispanic. I bet she gets denied at Yale and Stanford. And she gets in at Columbia and Harvard. The advice is very serious. They will swallow her "bad" GPA for a 170+ LSAT and Princeton undergrad.

[catlady2]

OP has zero shot at Harvard or YS with a 3.3 (sorry OP). the "prestige UG" counts for much less than you say -- it might help a 3.75 candidate. [/quote]


LOL If I wanted someone to tell me I can go anywhere my heart desires, I'd have asked my dad... So sincerity much appreciated! What's NU?

[Winston1984]

OP has zero shot at Harvard or YS with a 3.3 (sorry OP). the "prestige UG" counts for much less than you say -- it might help a 3.75 candidate.

LOL If I wanted someone to tell me I can go anywhere my heart desires, I'd have asked my dad... So sincerity much appreciated! What's NU?[/quote]

Northwestern

[jbagelboy]

Go to the "Rankings/Profiles" tab on this website, look at the T-20 schools on that list and then apply to all of these and no others. And sit back and relax while the acceptances roll in. Forget about U of H and American. Besides LSAT, GPA and URM status, peeps with elite undergrads get a real good bump in LS admissions, especially if they are URM's. You have a legitimate chance at Harvard with that LSAT and undergrad school.

Bullshit dude. OP has zero shot at Harvard or YS with a 3.3 (sorry OP). the "prestige UG" counts for much less than you say -- it might help a 3.75 candidate. Is this advice for real?

TFA is a solid soft, and I think you can craft a strong application for NYU. That would be the target school for you. Columbia will be tough with below median LSAT. NU and Gtown are guaranteed, strong chance at UVA, Penn, probably out at Berkeley.

She is Hispanic. I bet she gets denied at Yale and Stanford. And she gets in at Columbia and Harvard. The advice is very serious. They will swallow her "bad" GPA for a 170+ LSAT and Princeton undergrad.

Duder, we dont even know if she is URM hispanic, and the MA boost isnt that strong anyway. AA would have a shot , but you're vastly overinflating her expectations here. Look at the data. Harvard is impossible, and CLS quite unlikely (although well worth the app and there are data pts in range). You're just speaking out of your ass unless you can back it up on LSn. And the undergrad is only marginally relevant with 3.7+ so your penchant for repeating it doesnt help your case

[bizzybone1313]

Go to the "Rankings/Profiles" tab on this website, look at the T-20 schools on that list and then apply to all of these and no others. And sit back and relax while the acceptances roll in. Forget about U of H and American. Besides LSAT, GPA and URM status, peeps with elite undergrads get a real good bump in LS admissions, especially if they are URM's. You have a legitimate chance at Harvard with that LSAT and undergrad school.

Bullshit dude. OP has zero shot at Harvard or YS with a 3.3 (sorry OP). the "prestige UG" counts for much less than you say -- it might help a 3.75 candidate. Is this advice for real?

TFA is a solid soft, and I think you can craft a strong application for NYU. That would be the target school for you. Columbia will be tough with below median LSAT. NU and Gtown are guaranteed, strong chance at UVA, Penn, probably out at Berkeley.

She is Hispanic. I bet she gets denied at Yale and Stanford. And she gets in at Columbia and Harvard. The advice is very serious. They will swallow her "bad" GPA for a 170+ LSAT and Princeton undergrad.

Duder, we dont even know if she is URM hispanic, and the MA boost isnt that strong anyway. AA would have a shot , but you're vastly overinflating her expectations here. Look at the data. Harvard is impossible, and CLS quite unlikely (although well worth the app and there are data pts in range). You're just speaking out of your ass unless you can back it up on LSn. And the undergrad is only marginally relevant with 3.7+ so your penchant for repeating it doesnt help your case

My advice comes straight from LSN. URM's from super elite schools overperform their numbers. I am not going to sit here and hunt down URM's from elite undergrads just to prove a point. Go hunt them down and you will see this is true. Here is my prediction for OP's entire cycle.

Yale- Out
Stanford- Out
Harvard- In
Columbia- In
NYU- In
Chicago- In
Penn- In
Berkeley & Duke- In at one and out at the other one
Virginia- In
Michigan- In
Cornell- In
Northwestern- In
Georgetown- In

You guys mostly just wash, rinse and repeat all the advice you have read during your TLS time. This advice mainly revolves this median bullshit. At the end of the day, if the median is 173 at Harvard, there is going to be significant number of guys and gals with an LSAT number below that. That is just the way it is. After Harvard gets done admitting the 3.9's and 176's of the world, they start to look at other factors. OP happens to have a lot of those other qualities that they absolutely love.

OP's strengths are as follows: 171+Princeton+Latina+TFA. Those 4 factors COMBINED are going to make her cycle golden. Harvard and the other top schools want alumni that reflect well on the school AFTER they graduate. And this is one of the primary reasons why URM's from elite undergrads do so well. Harvard, Columbia and all these other schools reason that a Princeton undergrad graduate is more likely to reflect well on the school than other peeps from lesser schools.

OP, please do yourself a favor and apply to Yale, Harvard, Stanford and Columbia. If you do not apply, it could very well be the biggest mistake of your life.

Please come back and tell TLS (even if you do so in vague terms) how your cycle went.

[jbagelboy]

Bullshit dude. OP has zero shot at Harvard or YS with a 3.3 (sorry OP). the "prestige UG" counts for much less than you say -- it might help a 3.75 candidate. Is this advice for real?

TFA is a solid soft, and I think you can craft a strong application for NYU. That would be the target school for you. Columbia will be tough with below median LSAT. NU and Gtown are guaranteed, strong chance at UVA, Penn, probably out at Berkeley.

She is Hispanic. I bet she gets denied at Yale and Stanford. And she gets in at Columbia and Harvard. The advice is very serious. They will swallow her "bad" GPA for a 170+ LSAT and Princeton undergrad.

Duder, we dont even know if she is URM hispanic, and the MA boost isnt that strong anyway. AA would have a shot , but you're vastly overinflating her expectations here. Look at the data. Harvard is impossible, and CLS quite unlikely (although well worth the app and there are data pts in range). You're just speaking out of your ass unless you can back it up on LSn. And the undergrad is only marginally relevant with 3.7+ so your penchant for repeating it doesnt help your case

My advice comes straight from LSN. URM's from super elite schools overperform their numbers. I am not going to sit here and hunt down URM's from elite undergrads just to prove a point. Go hunt them down and you will see this is true. Here is my prediction for OP's entire cycle.

Lol. I just did. There is not ONE urm accepted student at Harvard with a sub 3.5 gpa. Not one. Not a single applicant to Harvard admitted below 3.5, and only a handful below 3.6. There is no way to get into Harvard, URM or not, with a sub 3.5 GPA. Go take a look, you just got called out and its gotta hurt.

You guys mostly just wash, rinse and repeat all the advice you have read during your TLS time. This advice mainly revolves this median bullshit. At the end of the day, if the median is 173 at Harvard, there is going to be significant number of guys and gals with an LSAT number below that. That is just the way it is. After Harvard gets done admitting the 3.9's and 176's of the world, they start to look at other factors. OP happens to have a lot of those other qualities that they absolutely love.

OP's strengths are as follows: 171+Princeton+Latina+TFA. Those 4 factors COMBINED are going to make her cycle golden. Harvard and the other top schools want alumni that reflect well on the school AFTER they graduate. And this is one of the primary reasons why URM's from elite undergrads do so well. Harvard, Columbia and all these other schools reason that a Princeton undergrad graduate is more likely to reflect well on the school than other peeps from lesser schools.

It's called a GPA floor of 3.6, and 3.5 for URM. No further explanation needed. All this is irrelevant

for OP: you stand a good chance at NYU and below. Don't sell yourself short, but keep yourself realistic

[bizzybone1313]

^^^^Alright let`s see what happens. But I predict you are going to be wrong. OP will get at least one of Columbia or Harvard and maybe even both. I never said she was a shoo-in, but she has a good chance.

[Clearly]

Bizzy, I usually agree with you, but this time I gotta respectfully disagree... especially because we don't know if urm, Hispanic is too vague. In either case Harvard is out, but I think anything else is conceivable ccn down, especially if MA.

[bizzybone1313]

In a time of declining apps, I think OP's app is going to be just barely enough to get her into Harvard. All of the T-14 have outliers here and there, I think OP's total app is going to get her second looks. She has done just enough to get her some serious consideration. If OP had applied in 2009 or 2010, she wouldn't have had much of a chance at Harvard or Columbia.

[catlady2]

I will make sure to keep y'all updated on what happens, heh... This has been very helpful!

What kind of Hispanics AREN'T URM? Anyway, born and raised in Puerto Rico of native parents who have never lived off of the island (but both with college degrees from island). Spanish as a first language and throughout schooling.

[bamfrosty]

I will make sure to keep y'all updated on what happens, heh... This has been very helpful!

What kind of Hispanics AREN'T URM? Anyway, born and raised in Puerto Rico of native parents who have never lived off of the island (but both with college degrees from island). Spanish as a first language and throughout schooling.

URM = AA, MA, NA, and PR, so you're good here. Keep in mind that the PR boost isn't nearly as strong as the AA boost is.

[AfricanGal]

Just putting this out there. There have been URMs w/ sub 3.5s (non-AA) who have been accepted to HS according to LSN. Of course the odds are still against OP, but I'd say she'd have a shot at HS given 171 LSAT/Princeton UG/TFA/. Besides, the sample size of LSN can lead to misleading end results (esp. for URM admissions). I'd send an app.

[akg144]

My prediction is out at HYS (esp. with the GPA and the 159 which I believe HYS still average despite the 2006 change to just report the top score to USNWR) but #4Columbia and #5UChicago on down will most likely accept you and I predict you'll end up with a full ride to Duke/Northwestern/Cornell/GW etc. The fact that your ESL URM + Princeton UG + Teach for America are about the best softs you could possibly have imo. Craft an incredible PS and Resume and I like your chances for having a stellar cycle...

[AAJD2B]

Lol. I just did. There is not ONE urm accepted student at Harvard with a sub 3.5 gpa. Not one. Not a single applicant to Harvard admitted below 3.5, and only a handful below 3.6. There is no way to get into Harvard, URM or not, with a sub 3.5 GPA. Go take a look, you just got called out and its gotta hurt.

You guys mostly just wash, rinse and repeat all the advice you have read during your TLS time. This advice mainly revolves this median bullshit. At the end of the day, if the median is 173 at Harvard, there is going to be significant number of guys and gals with an LSAT number below that. That is just the way it is. After Harvard gets done admitting the 3.9's and 176's of the world, they start to look at other factors. OP happens to have a lot of those other qualities that they absolutely love.

OP's strengths are as follows: 171+Princeton+Latina+TFA. Those 4 factors COMBINED are going to make her cycle golden. Harvard and the other top schools want alumni that reflect well on the school AFTER they graduate. And this is one of the primary reasons why URM's from elite undergrads do so well. Harvard, Columbia and all these other schools reason that a Princeton undergrad graduate is more likely to reflect well on the school than other peeps from lesser schools.

It's called a GPA floor of 3.6, and 3.5 for URM. No further explanation needed. All this is irrelevant

for OP: you stand a good chance at NYU and below. Don't sell yourself short, but keep yourself realistic

LOL at the above post.

FYI, and this has already been noted by a HLS URM, Harvard's and Stanford's GPA floor for URMs is 3.2 and there have been quite a few H and S URM admits with sub 3.5 and mid to high 160s LSAT (3.4/165 and 3.1/170 both in at S and 3.2/170 and 168/3.4) in at H a cycle or two ago.

You stand corrected.

OP the point here is blanket the T-14. While Yale is a long shot S and H are not outside reach for you. TFA and your ivy undergrad will play to your advantage.

Also I advise you consult and speak with previous URM applicants who are best able to advise on your options. Ignore the noise by others professing to know when they clearly do not.

[AAJD2B]

Just putting this out there. There have been URMs w/ sub 3.5s (non-AA) who have been accepted to HS according to LSN. Of course the odds are still against OP, but I'd say she'd have a shot at HS given 171 LSAT/Princeton UG/TFA/. Besides, the sample size of LSN can lead to misleading end results (esp. for URM admissions). I'd send an app.

+100000

I hope OP applies everywhere.