3.4, 165 URM Forum

[Spacejam]

I just finished my summer semester and have a solid 3.4, and will be finished with essentially all my classes by the end of this upcoming fall semester. I went to community college for two years and posted a 2.8. It wasn't until I transferred to a large state school that I became serious about grades. So far I've been able to accomplish a 4.0 in my time here at university (poly sci major). Not really involved in to many school affiliated clubs aside from the rugby club team. I'm African American and am the first person in my household to graduate from college. Somehow I managed to post a 165 on my lsat, and I'm wondering what my chances are/whether or not I should be applying to any top-14 schools.

Schools I'm think about applying to:

Reach schools
-NYU
-UVA
-Michigan
-Cornell

Mid level:
-ND
-BC
-George Mason
-BYU

Bottom Tier
-American University
-Temple University


Lastly I was wondering whether or not I should send my apps after my fall semester and hopefully show schools a slightly higher GPA . My GPA does seem a bit low compared to a lot of people regardless of its upward trend. Or is applying early the better option (not ed)

Thanks

[t-14orbust]

I'd shoot an app to Harvard if I were you.

[txdude45]

What kind of URM are you?

Apply with the GPA you have, and just send the LSAC a new transcript asap once fall semester is over. Also, I don't understand your list. Can you explain how you came up with it?. You left off some gems and added some truly questionable schools. You should be applying to the whole T14, save for schools you just don't want to go to.

[Spacejam]

@txdude45, My parents were immigrants from African, so I'm a first generation American. As for my school selection, I'm a resident of VA and would like to work in DC in the future. I can see why BYU seems so random, but for its cheap tuition and decent ranking it seems to be a good bang for your buck. I'm also unaware of how much of a boost my URM status will give me. Isn't the median Harvard LSAT like 173?

[txdude45]

@txdude45, My parents were immigrants from African, so I'm a first generation American. As for my school selection, I'm a resident of VA and would like to work in DC in the future. I can see why BYU seems so random, but for its cheap tuition and decent ranking it seems to be a good bang for your buck. I'm also unaware of how much of a boost my URM status will give me. Isn't the median Harvard LSAT like 173?

You have so much to learn, lol. Their median is 173, but that means half their class is below that. Most of that half will be URM applicants, so your 165 doesn't come close to excluding you. AA males are a rare commodity in admissions, especially ones who have broken 160. Retake if you can, since closer to 170 is better, but if you aren't killing yourself to get into Harvard, or Stanford its not a big deal.

Apply to HS and see what happens. Also, if you're going to apply to NYU, you should also apply to Columbia. Likewise, if you apply to Michigan, you may as well apply to Chicago. If money is an issue, cut the lower ranked schools loose and spend the money on higher ranked schools.

American is cool and all, since you know you want to work close, but their employment stats aren't great. Wanting to work in DC doesn't mean you have to stay close. You have ties, so going to the best school you can is more important. Better subs would be Georgetown and GW. They aren't blowing the doors off, but they have employed graduates. GW would probably give you $100k+ and Georgetown could likely be talked into $40-50k (more if you cause a stink about it like I did).

A good starting list would be:
T6 (except Yale, unless you wanna roll the dice)
Michigan
UVA (write a "why UVA" because they like to waitlist ppl with numbers like yours)
Duke
Georgetown
George Washington

[Spacejam]

Thanks for all that info man, I appreciate it. As for my lsat score, I was scoring in the low 160's during my practice tests, so I doubt I'd get anything much higher than 165 if I retook it. It's pretty mind blowing to think I have a legitimate chance at some of these schools. My pre-law advisor has been telling me the complete opposite lol

[bizzybone1313]

Thanks for all that info man, I appreciate it. As for my lsat score, I was scoring in the low 160's during my practice tests, so I doubt I'd get anything much higher than 165 if I retook it. It's pretty mind blowing to think I have a legitimate chance at some of these schools. My pre-law advisor has been telling me the complete opposite lol

Keep your law school plans to yourself in real life. All you are going to get is a bunch of haters/racists telling you to go to the local TTTT schools. They just want you to self destruct and essentially ruin your life by doing this. I graduated Magna Cum Laude from undergrad. At my former employer when I was resigning to study for the LSAT, I had numerous clowns telling me I should go to the local TTTT law school. 2 out of 3 of these were law degree holders themselves. Neither one of them graduated with high honors like me. Everyone's resumes were widely available to everyone at this company, so these idiots knew what kind of academic background I had.

So, like others have told you, blanket the T-14 and some other select schools outside of this tier and hope for the best.

[akg144]

Your app will be good in many T-14 as is, but if your willing to put in the work and think you can gain even 2 or 3 points it'd probably be worth your while. If you can get 4 or 5, HYS is a definite possibility.

[John_rizzy_rawls]

NYU, Michigan, and Cornell aren't reaches for you, they're targets. Your reaches are HYS. Retake in October and notch a few points and even Harvard won't be a real reach. Apply before January and put together a clean app. You should have a great cycle.

[Spacejam]

I guess I have nothing to lose from retaking, I'll give it one last go.

[PRgradBYU]

NYU, Michigan, and Cornell aren't reaches for you, they're targets. Your reaches are HYS. Retake in October and notch a few points and even Harvard won't be a real reach. Apply before January and put together a clean app. You should have a great cycle.

Great advice right here. I see HYSCCN in your future, OP; just make sure you study harder for the October LSAT than you've ever studied for anything.

[sparty99]

I would apply to every school in the Top 25.

[Ti Malice]

You left off some gems and added some truly questionable schools. You should be applying to the whole T14, save for schools you just don't want to go to.

OP, you should apply to the entire T14, regardless of whether you would want to attend all of them or not. The point is to get scholarship offers that you can use as leverage in negotiations with your preferred schools. Don't get hung up on rankings within the lower T14, either. Duke, Northwestern, and Cornell are all ranked lower than Michigan every year, for instance, but all of them are equal to or better than Michigan in employment outcomes.

It's pretty mind blowing to think I have a legitimate chance at some of these schools. My pre-law advisor has been telling me the complete opposite lol

Pre-law advisors are some of the most utterly useless human beings on the planet, and yours is no exception. Cease all communication with that nitwit.

[Ti Malice]

I would apply to every school in the Top 25.

The "T25" isn't a thing. It includes schools like Indiana, which places barely more than 50% of its grads into FT/LT/JD-required employment and which has no pull outside of the state borders. And it doesn't make any sense to apply to Alabama unless you have ties to the state and want to work there the rest of your life. USNWR manages to get the T14 correct, though the order of the lower T14 is pretty useless. Then they get the four strongest regional schools after the T14 correct. After that, the rankings are useless.

[sparty99]

I would apply to every school in the Top 25.

The "T25" isn't a thing. It includes schools like Indiana, which places barely more than 50% of its grads into FT/LT/JD-required employment and which has no pull outside of the state borders. And it doesn't make any sense to apply to Alabama unless you have ties to the state and want to work there the rest of your life. USNWR manages to get the T14 correct, though the order of the lower T14 is pretty useless. Then they get the four strongest regional schools after the T14 correct. After that, the rankings are useless.

I would apply to every school in the Top 25 minus Alabama. A full ride at Emory or U of Minnesota could be better than sticker at a T14. Possibly. Perhaps. I mean, if you get the fee waiver, why not.

[Ti Malice]

I would apply to every school in the Top 25.

The "T25" isn't a thing. It includes schools like Indiana, which places barely more than 50% of its grads into FT/LT/JD-required employment and which has no pull outside of the state borders. And it doesn't make any sense to apply to Alabama unless you have ties to the state and want to work there the rest of your life. USNWR manages to get the T14 correct, though the order of the lower T14 is pretty useless. Then they get the four strongest regional schools after the T14 correct. After that, the rankings are useless.

I would apply to every school in the Top 25 minus Alabama. A full ride at Emory or U of Minnesota could be better than sticker at a T14. Possibly. Perhaps. I mean, if you get the fee waiver, why not.

My point is not that one shouldn't apply to any schools outside of the T14+4 -- it's that the "T25" designation is arbitrary and meaningless. "T25" does not describe anything that actually matters. There are a number of schools outside of the T25 that have better placement than several of the schools within the T25. The membership of the T25 changes every year. Most important, all of the schools rounding out the "T25" place regionally/locally and, in many cases, in markets where pre-existing ties are important or necessary. UMN may be ranked 19th, but it doesn't make any sense to go there over Arizona (38th) if you want to practice in Phoenix. Emory may be ranked 23rd, but it would be stupid to go there over UNC (38th) if you want to practice in North Carolina.

OP should consider applying to schools outside of the T14 to see if he/she can pick up any full rides, but OP should not apply on the basis of idiotic rankings that don't actually describe anything in reality.

[Spacejam]

^I agree. Schools like Alabama and Indiana seem to only employ within their state. Where as I want to work in the DMV area.