3.4 GPA, 170 LSAT: Chances at YHS? Forum

[24671]

Hi, New Here..

What are my chances at YHS (SLS being top choice)?

Philosophy Major, Double Minor in French and Rhetoric
3.4 GPA (Shaky start Frosh Year, maintained 4.0 afterwards)
170 LSAT (June 2013)------>retake??
Top 20 LAC
URM (I think, not quite sure if I am one)
Decent Softs
-Student Government Representative (Elected) -- 3 Years
-Student Government Committees (Elected)
-Debate Team
-Resident Advisor
-Part-Time job--3 years
-Varsity Athlete--3 years

Interested in Academia or BigLaw

appreciate it

[IAFG]

If you're not a URM you are going to squeak into T14 and definitely be out at HYS.

[hephaestus]

Why do you think you are urm? If you're not you have no shot.

[txdude45]

URM: AA, MA, NA, PR

[thepoporcoming]

I don't get it, how are you not sure whether you are URM. Shouldn't you know that shit by now.

I would say, you are in T-7 to T-14.

[24671]

I don't get it, how are you not sure whether you are URM. Shouldn't you know that shit by now.

I would say, you are in T-7 to T-14.

Well, the issue is my parents immigrated here from West Africa and I wasn't sure if that translated here to my being a under-represented minority. Do second-generation immigrants from Africa count as URM in law school admissions? Because I know a few friends of mines who said law school admissions for URM is a bit different from college admissions. I've typically put down "black" on college applications and standardized test, but I wasn't exactly sure if I'd chosen correctly, perhaps I should have chosen "other"? I suppose technically I'm African American, but I'm not sure if URM AA Admissions effects me because I am a second-generation immigrant. I'm thinking now that maybe URM only accounts for minorities with an ancestry from America (black Americans). Anyone care to comment, because I've heard mixed things on here and outside.

thanks for the chances btw, I may be reaching a bit to far but for the career path I have in mind a T3 school would be ideal and I've kind of fallen in love with sls...haha

[90convoy]

I don't get it, how are you not sure whether you are URM. Shouldn't you know that shit by now.

I would say, you are in T-7 to T-14.

Well, the issue is my parents immigrated here from West Africa and I wasn't sure if that translated here to my being a under-represented minority. Do second-generation immigrants from Africa count as URM in law school admissions? Because I know a few friends of mines who said law school admissions for URM is a bit different from college admissions. I've typically put down "black" on college applications and standardized test, but I wasn't exactly sure if I'd chosen correctly, perhaps I should have chosen "other"? I suppose technically I'm African American, but I'm not sure if URM AA Admissions effects me because I am a second-generation immigrant. I'm thinking now that maybe URM only accounts for minorities with an ancestry from America (black Americans). Anyone care to comment, because I've heard mixed things on here and outside.

thanks for the chances btw, I may be reaching a bit to far but for the career path I have in mind a T3 school would be ideal and I've kind of fallen in love with sls...haha

Yeah you are African American/Black

[bananapeanutbutter]

Wondering - does South African count?

It'd be pretty f'd if it does. The pt of the URM boost is to even the playing field for historically discriminated against groups so giving white Brits a bonus for colonizing Africa and using the people seems cray cray.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

A chance at Harvard, though I'd call it below 50%. Likely in at CLS.

[romothesavior]

So you're black? Then yes you're a URM. And I'd say a 3.4/170 AA is very like at least one of HYS, though I'm not as in-tune with LS admissions as I used to be.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Wondering - does South African count?

It'd be pretty f'd if it does. The pt of the URM boost is to even the playing field for historically discriminated against groups so giving white Brits a bonus for colonizing Africa and using the people seems cray cray.

First of all, South Africa is like 85-90% African-descended people. The actual chances someone who identifies as South African has light skin is pretty low.

But I assume you mean "Do white people from Africa get a boost?" Not if they're being honest. It's well-understood that the purpose of affirmative action is to increase racial diversity. If you were a White South African, and you put African-American on an application, you'd be doing it purely for selfish reasons.

Note that there's no verification process on what you list your race as. Race is an amorphous concept that means different things to different people. No one is going to dig through your ancestral records and come up with a formula for deciding what constitutes blackness. Lying on the application carries the same consequences it always does, but a question can't ask what race you ARE, only what you consider yourself to be. If you have the complexion of Wonderbread but truly and seriously consider yourself to be black, then you could put black, as long as you could pass a polygraph saying you honestly believe you're black.

[PRgradBYU]

I don't get it, how are you not sure whether you are URM. Shouldn't you know that shit by now.

I would say, you are in T-7 to T-14.

Well, the issue is my parents immigrated here from West Africa and I wasn't sure if that translated here to my being a under-represented minority. Do second-generation immigrants from Africa count as URM in law school admissions? Because I know a few friends of mines who said law school admissions for URM is a bit different from college admissions. I've typically put down "black" on college applications and standardized test, but I wasn't exactly sure if I'd chosen correctly, perhaps I should have chosen "other"? I suppose technically I'm African American, but I'm not sure if URM AA Admissions effects me because I am a second-generation immigrant. I'm thinking now that maybe URM only accounts for minorities with an ancestry from America (black Americans). Anyone care to comment, because I've heard mixed things on here and outside.

thanks for the chances btw, I may be reaching a bit to far but for the career path I have in mind a T3 school would be ideal and I've kind of fallen in love with sls...haha

You're probably more likely to get into HLS than SLS.

[24671]

I don't get it, how are you not sure whether you are URM. Shouldn't you know that shit by now.

I would say, you are in T-7 to T-14.

Well, the issue is my parents immigrated here from West Africa and I wasn't sure if that translated here to my being a under-represented minority. Do second-generation immigrants from Africa count as URM in law school admissions? Because I know a few friends of mines who said law school admissions for URM is a bit different from college admissions. I've typically put down "black" on college applications and standardized test, but I wasn't exactly sure if I'd chosen correctly, perhaps I should have chosen "other"? I suppose technically I'm African American, but I'm not sure if URM AA Admissions effects me because I am a second-generation immigrant. I'm thinking now that maybe URM only accounts for minorities with an ancestry from America (black Americans). Anyone care to comment, because I've heard mixed things on here and outside.

thanks for the chances btw, I may be reaching a bit to far but for the career path I have in mind a T3 school would be ideal and I've kind of fallen in love with sls...haha

You're probably more likely to get into HLS than SLS.

I see. Looking on myLSN there doesn't seem to be any AA who were Admitted, Waitlisted, or Denied with my stats at Stanford, from Harvard on down there haven't been any denails (with the exception of a few WL).

Is it still worth my time to apply to YS?
Should I retake? Latest PT was a 172, doesn't look like I'll be improving by much, if at all.
Would increasing my gpa by a few tenths help me? As of now it's roughly a 3.42 and I'm taking summer courses to pad gpa. I'm hoping I might be able to drop a course I received a D in my Freshman year, which could possibly raise my gpa to 3.5X, but I'm not sure my school would allow that or if that action would be evident within my LSAC gpa.

If I can't get into Stanford I may consider just waiting to apply after a year or two. I'm not to excited about staying in New England and I'd really like to be near my BF and family for grad school. Academia is my ultimate goal and I plan on residing in California for Law.

[txdude45]

1) Is it still worth my time to apply to YS?
2) Should I retake? Latest PT was a 172, doesn't look like I'll be improving by much, if at all.
3) Would increasing my gpa by a few tenths help me? As of now it's roughly a 3.42 and I'm taking summer courses to pad gpa.
4) I'm hoping I might be able to drop a course I received a D in my Freshman year, which could possibly raise my gpa to 3.5X, but I'm not sure my school would allow that or if that action would be evident within my LSAC gpa.

If I can't get into Stanford I may consider just waiting to apply after a year or two. I'm not to excited about staying in New England and I'd really like to be near my BF and family for grad school. Academia is my ultimate goal and I plan on residing in California for Law.

1) It is definitely worth your time to apply to YS. It's still unlikely, but w/ a 170, you'd be silly not to try.

2) Retake if you want. It won't hurt you, but I don't think it will benefit you much, unless you blow the doors off and get 175+.

3) As far as your GPA, of course you should get it higher. 3.42->3.5 may not provide a ton of net benefit, but the only other way it can go is down. You have to take more classes anyway, so why not do well in them?

4) Do whatever you can to get bad grades removed form your transcript. If they aren't on your transcript, the LSAC can't/doesn't factor them in.

[PRgradBYU]

I don't get it, how are you not sure whether you are URM. Shouldn't you know that shit by now.

I would say, you are in T-7 to T-14.

Well, the issue is my parents immigrated here from West Africa and I wasn't sure if that translated here to my being a under-represented minority. Do second-generation immigrants from Africa count as URM in law school admissions? Because I know a few friends of mines who said law school admissions for URM is a bit different from college admissions. I've typically put down "black" on college applications and standardized test, but I wasn't exactly sure if I'd chosen correctly, perhaps I should have chosen "other"? I suppose technically I'm African American, but I'm not sure if URM AA Admissions effects me because I am a second-generation immigrant. I'm thinking now that maybe URM only accounts for minorities with an ancestry from America (black Americans). Anyone care to comment, because I've heard mixed things on here and outside.

thanks for the chances btw, I may be reaching a bit to far but for the career path I have in mind a T3 school would be ideal and I've kind of fallen in love with sls...haha

You're probably more likely to get into HLS than SLS.

I see. Looking on myLSN there doesn't seem to be any AA who were Admitted, Waitlisted, or Denied with my stats at Stanford, from Harvard on down there haven't been any denails (with the exception of a few WL).

Is it still worth my time to apply to YS?
Should I retake? Latest PT was a 172, doesn't look like I'll be improving by much, if at all.
Would increasing my gpa by a few tenths help me? As of now it's roughly a 3.42 and I'm taking summer courses to pad gpa. I'm hoping I might be able to drop a course I received a D in my Freshman year, which could possibly raise my gpa to 3.5X, but I'm not sure my school would allow that or if that action would be evident within my LSAC gpa.

If I can't get into Stanford I may consider just waiting to apply after a year or two. I'm not to excited about staying in New England and I'd really like to be near my BF and family for grad school. Academia is my ultimate goal and I plan on residing in California for Law.

You should still absolutely apply to Stanford -- don't get me wrong -- but if there's anything you can do to get your GPA over 3.5, you should consider doing that. An AA male with a 170 LSAT is a rare commodity, but Harvard traditionally seems to accept more AAs than Stanford does (due to larger class sizes). I wouldn't be totally shocked if you ended up getting accepted to both schools, but even with your AA status, your GPA is on the border. AA male with 3.5+ / 170+ is a force to be reckoned with.

[jbagelboy]

Wondering - does South African count?

It'd be pretty f'd if it does. The pt of the URM boost is to even the playing field for historically discriminated against groups so giving white Brits a bonus for colonizing Africa and using the people seems cray cray.

First of all, South Africa is like 85-90% African-descended people. The actual chances someone who identifies as South African has light skin is pretty low.

But I assume you mean "Do white people from Africa get a boost?" Not if they're being honest. It's well-understood that the purpose of affirmative action is to increase racial diversity. If you were a White South African, and you put African-American on an application, you'd be doing it purely for selfish reasons.

Note that there's no verification process on what you list your race as. Race is an amorphous concept that means different things to different people. No one is going to dig through your ancestral records and come up with a formula for deciding what constitutes blackness. Lying on the application carries the same consequences it always does, but a question can't ask what race you ARE, only what you consider yourself to be. If you have the complexion of Wonderbread but truly and seriously consider yourself to be black, then you could put black, as long as you could pass a polygraph saying you honestly believe you're black.

Others have discussed this, but if you are caucasian and put black/AA as your race, when you are caught there will be consequences (and you would be). Affirmative action is such a well-known part of any admissions process that employers and adcoms must have ways of confirming your race.. Otherwise nearly every 3.6/167 white male could lie and have a strong shot at Harvard.

[LSATSCORES2012]

Like you said, there's not much data for your info/URM... but it looks like:

You're not likely to get in at Yale (I know of a a 170/3.9+ AA rejected this cycle)

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Stanford is a possibility... if you extrapolate the green area on this graph, you'd be pretty close to the edge, but Stanford also could have a GPA floor.

--ImageRemoved--

Harvard seems like a decent possibility.

--ImageRemoved--

It also seems as though you've got a really good chance at NYU, a good chance at Columbia, and there's not as much data at Chicago but you seem borderline there.

[24671]

To clarify, I am an African American female, not male. Thank you for all the advice on this forum. Would anyone know..

1. What gpa would have made Stanford more feasible? Perhaps I could prolong my time before law school with some WE, I'm also considering Teach for america.

2. From what I've gatherd Columbia seems more likely with my stats. Does anyone happen to know if it places well in Academia or BigLaw because CLS is my second choice after SLS.

thank u

[jbagelboy]

To clarify, I am an African American female, not male. Thank you for all the advice on this forum. Would anyone know..

1. What gpa would have made Stanford more feasible? Perhaps I could prolong my time before law school with some WE, I'm also considering Teach for america.

2. From what I've gatherd Columbia seems more likely with my stats. Does anyone happen to know if it places well in Academia or BigLaw because CLS is my second choice after SLS.

thank u

1) its silly to apply to law school without your full GPA and all semesters accounted for. Why necessarily weaken your chances at admission? Definitely graduate, ace your senior year, and sure, do TFA -- it will provide a boost for stanford. Applying while a senior weakens your app in your situation. And a 3.42 and a 3.5 is a huge difference actually. Get your grades up and pad your credentials, and SlS will be within reach.

2) Columbia has the same biglaw placement in NyC as Stanford -- big firms love cls -- but its substantially weaker for academia and fed clerkships (usually a de facto pre-req for tenure track).