Seeking Advice on HLS Forum

[however]

I would like to get some comments on my chances at HLS. I have a 4.0 undergrad GPA, and I have taken the LSAT three times: 167, canceled, and 170. I am currently in my third year of studies. I plan to do a Master's program before applying to law school. No spectacular softs, unfortunately, to significantly boost up my likability (student government involvement, research experience, volunteerism, financial hardship and being gay ) . Oh, and I am from Canada.

My questions are:

(1) What are my chances of getting accepted in HLS with my current numbers? (I will apply after Master's)

(2) Given that I have already taken the LSAT three times, even if I manage to get, say, a 175 on another retake, do I still have a realistic shot at HLS (how negatively do they view four possible retakes? Do repeated takes ruin my chances completely?)

Thank you for your help in advance!

[madvillain]

Hey dude. HLS 1L from Canada as well. I think, all things considered, you have a decent chance of getting in. I think HLS would prefer a candidate with a 172+ LSAT score, optimally, but they definitely like high GPA's. I think your main objective is to ensure that your cumulative undergraduate GPA remains at 4.0. In terms of the LSAT, I think scoring a 175 would boost your chances, but not by a huge amount, because you've already written 3 times. I didn't have good softs either, so don't worry about that, it's out of your hands now. In the meantime, take a look at the other schools in the T14, they will in all likelihood offer you scholarships. As non-Americans, scholarship money can be very helpful in repaying loans, etc. Good luck.

[MyNameIsFlynn!]

You're out of retakes anyways so that's a moot point. 170/4 is competitive but you'll probably be one of the last ones in, if you make it off the waitlist. Maybe a 1 in 3 chance.

[however]

Thank you for the comments. So it is my understanding that the LSAT retake limit is three times for every two-year period. Seeing as I will probably do a two year MA program before applying, is it worth the hassel to redo the LSAT (realistically, for a 2 - 3 point increase)? Or has my previous retakes all but determined my odds at HLS. I know these things are hard to predicate, especially at top tier schools, so any and all insights are appreciated.

And if I do not get into HLS, I'll probably just go to U of Toronto, so no hard feelings. Thanks!

[MyNameIsFlynn!]

Thank you for the comments. So it is my understanding that the LSAT retake limit is three times for every two-year period. Seeing as I will probably do a two year MA program before applying, is it worth the hassel to redo the LSAT (realistically, for a 2 - 3 point increase)? Or has my previous retakes all but determined my odds at HLS. I know these things are hard to predicate, especially at top tier schools, so any and all insights are appreciated.

And if I do not get into HLS, I'll probably just go to U of Toronto, so no hard feelings. Thanks!

This is what HLS's website says about retakes:

"The LSAT need be taken only once. If you take the test more than once, all scores and their average will be reported and considered."

Anecdotes from TLS and LSN suggest otherwise, so read into it what you will.

[Rahviveh]

Thank you for the comments. So it is my understanding that the LSAT retake limit is three times for every two-year period. Seeing as I will probably do a two year MA program before applying, is it worth the hassel to redo the LSAT (realistically, for a 2 - 3 point increase)? Or has my previous retakes all but determined my odds at HLS. I know these things are hard to predicate, especially at top tier schools, so any and all insights are appreciated.

And if I do not get into HLS, I'll probably just go to U of Toronto, so no hard feelings. Thanks!

If law school is two years away, then yeah why not retake? A 2-3 point increase will make HLS a near guarantee.

[Typhoon24]

Maybe a 1 in 3 chance.

Your numbers are good, so i'm not sure if i would recommend waiting it out and retaking it. UToronto if harvard doesn't work is a great idea.

[cynthiad]

HLS is one of the only schools that appears to actually consider all your LSAT scores. That said, you have a decent chance with a 4.0/170, but it would be better with a higher LSAT.

The more important question is, why are you doing this MA? The only reason to do a grad program is to get a job, but since you're planning to go to law school it doesn't seem like this program will lead to one. Does the MA tie in with your plans for law school in some way?

One thing that might make a difference in your app is work experience--have you considered working for a few years?

[dr123]

dont waste money on a worthless masters degree if you plan on LS.

[however]

Thank you to those who have commented. I just have one more quick question. It is stated in HLS website that among the rencent entering class, "76% at least 1 year out of college and 54% 2+ years out of college".

Is this fact due to HLS giving preference to people who do not apply directly from college or that the application pool being mainly consisted of those who do not immediate apply? Am I in a disadvantaged position if I apply in my fourth year (might a MA at a reputable institution help?) Cheers!

[Doorkeeper]

You've got about a 45-50% chance. Good luck.

[jbagelboy]

How long does TLS think Harvard will continue to consider averaged scores? I think this policy helped sink me faster

[Doorkeeper]

How long does TLS think Harvard will continue to consider averaged scores? I think this policy helped sink me faster

Harvard doesn't average. They just take both scores into account when making their determination. I have multiple friends who got 165/175 with 3.8-3.9 GPAs and got in.

[Ti Malice]

How long does TLS think Harvard will continue to consider averaged scores? I think this policy helped sink me faster

Your numbers with highest LSAT alone were sufficient to sink you.

[sabanist]

I have a 4.1+, and I still retook my 170 because I didn't feel good enough about my chances with it.
Best decision I've ever made. I don't think the multiple scores were held against me, and I wasn't asked about the LSAT at all during my JS1.

I basically did NoodleyOne's retaker guide. That strategy helped me tremendously.
Good luck to you.

[heythatslife]

I have a friend who got into HLS this cycle with 3.95ish GPA & 170. Not URM, okay but not amazing softs. But I gather he's the exception rather than the norm, and he's admitted as much.