169/4.25 Chances For H/S and General Advice Forum

[2x2Matrix]

Hi all,

Here's my info:

• Senior, non-URM, business
• Working for two years after graduation
• Plan to enter law school in Fall 2015
• Plan to apply next cycle and defer admission; also have flexibly of re-applying the following cycle
• Due to my business background, mainly interested in H and S. Not really in Y

I suppose I am a bit of a reverse splitter for H. From perusing the forums, it seems I might have a standing chance with S, but the LSAT is still not ideal as I’m under median.

Before everyone just says retake, I will add this:

I got a 169 on the Feb 2013 LSAT. I also wrote in Oct 2012 and cancelled it. So I have 1 retake remaining. My PT range for the Feb test was 172-180, with a 175 average. Hence, my score was quite discouraging, especially as I felt amazing walking out of the test and very confident I had something in the 172-176 range.

Given that I have 1 more retake in the next two years, I see the following two options for myself:

1) Don't retake for the time being. Apply next fall anyway with the 169/4.25 and see if I get an offer from H or S. If yes, then end of story. If not, then retake June/Oct 2014, hopefully lock in the 172+, and apply again the following cycle.

2) Retake June 2013. Hopefully lock in the 172+ right there and then. Proceed to apply in the fall with 172+/4.25, which is a lot more comfortable than the 169. However, I will be in Europe for 2-3 weeks in Apr/May. My convocation is one week before the June LSAT, so I'll also lose that weekend. No fresh resources left. Also completely unmotivated at this point.

So I guess this is my list of questions:

• For option 1, what are my chances to H and S?
• Anyone think option 2 is actually better? Is there another course of action I haven't considered?
• How much does the 4.2+ GPA really help? Do the schools really treat a 4.2 differently from a 4.1, or do they just go “oh hey a kid that went to a school that gives out A+s.”

Any thoughts and opinions are much appreciated. Happy to provide any more info.

Thanks!

[Dr. Dre]

prob a shot at sTTTanford

[Cobretti]

2 years at MBB and that GPA will get you S as is. H may snub you but you already have a very good shot at S

[rebexness]

Retake October?

[Ti Malice]

Definitely retake. Your odds are not very good at either right now.

Are you planning on doing a JD/MBA? If not, there's no good reason not to consider Y as well.

[2x2Matrix]

Retaking in Oct 2013 can't happen since I'll be moving to the west coast in Sept and the Oct test date will likely conflict with training.

Regarding JD/MBA, I'm not set on that route, but keeping it in the back of my mind. Taking my GMAT this summer. Whether or not I tack on the MBA, my plan is to cross register in MBA courses to build my network. Hence, Y doesn't appeal to me (other reasons too, aside from the fact I won't get in haha).

Rizza, you sound pretty confident about S, which is nice to hear. Is there much precedent as to how H or S views applicants coming from top consulting firms or investment banks?

[Ti Malice]

Fair enough. If you end up applying with your current stats, though, I think it would behoove you to throw apps at all three of YHS (unless you simply wouldn't go to any law school aside from H/S), since your odds at any one of them are not terribly strong. Y definitely does take people with your stats, and your background would give you a bit of a boost.

Good luck!

[Cobretti]

Retaking in Oct 2013 can't happen since I'll be moving to the west coast in Sept and the Oct test date will likely conflict with training.

Regarding JD/MBA, I'm not set on that route, but keeping it in the back of my mind. Taking my GMAT this summer. Whether or not I tack on the MBA, my plan is to cross register in MBA courses to build my network. Hence, Y doesn't appeal to me (other reasons too, aside from the fact I won't get in haha).

Rizza, you sound pretty confident about S, which is nice to hear. Is there much precedent as to how H or S views applicants coming from top consulting firms or investment banks?

Stanford is much more focused on GPA and softs/pedigree. They put arguably the least emphasis on LSAT out of the entire T14 (Berk is the only other school that's even close), so your 169 isn't really that much of a problem. Your GPA and elite pedigree are going to be very attractive to them. I'd say 80% chance you get S right now, if you get up to a 172 you're as close to a lock as I could imagine unless you have C&F or some other issues.

More specifically about how they view people from top consulting/ibanking backgrounds, check out this profile. His 2 years WE is ibanking. As you can see, he's killing it.

However I will also say there is absolutely no reason not to retake. I was averaging 176 and got a 170 on my first go, retook and got a 173. If you really were averaging that much higher than your score you have a very good chance of picking up enough points to make you a lock at everywhere. Good luck

[Ti Malice]

Stanford has lower LSAT numbers, but that doesn't mean it's easier that someone with slightly lower LSAT numbers will have an easy time getting in. With their tiny class size, they can afford to be very picky. Run some searches on myLSN and you will see that only people with 3.95+ and 177+ stand a strong chance of being accepted.

See: http://myLSN.info/fdvr9y.

[EvilClinton]

They are not going to count your GPA from a Canadian university so you need to get a 172+ for a shot at H or S.

[Cobretti]

Stanford has lower LSAT numbers, but that doesn't mean it's easier that someone with slightly lower LSAT numbers will have an easy time getting in. With their tiny class size, they can afford to be very picky. Run some searches on myLSN and you will see that only people with 3.95+ and 177+ stand a strong chance of being accepted.

See: http://myLSN.info/fdvr9y.

They are extremely picky, which is because they are so obsessed with softs/pedigree. OP will have 2 years WE at a MBB firm... at Stanford that's probably a bigger deal than his GPA. You're right that they are extremely picky and numbers aren't a good indicator (so LSN should never really even be used for S), but OP has the credentials that they are looking for.

In case you didn't click the profile I linked, its a 171/3.9 non-urm with 2 years wall street ibanking that got into S this cycle (with probably the shortest turnaround of anyone this cycle).

[Cobretti]

They are not going to count your GPA from a Canadian university so you need to get a 172+ for a shot at H or S.

Not true

[dr123]

Why are you planning to apply then defer? the fuck?

[2x2Matrix]

Thanks for the insights. I agree I would be doing myself a disservice not throwing an app at Y, so I'll end up applying to all 3.

Also cool to see the banker's cycle unfold. Thanks for finding, mrizza.

Dr123, deferring because my contract goes through summer 2015.