Wayne Splitzky here! Low GPA, High LSAT Forum

[tml2891]

Hello all! This is my first post/thread on TLS.

So here it is:

Junior
Business Economics Major (Could stay an extra semester and get double major in International Business)

cum GPA (so far): 2.29
LSAT:
1st attempt -166
2nd attempt - 173
I have finished about 64-65% of the minimum requirement of credits for graduation.
The remaining 35% of credits are all higher level courses.

I am a slacker. I have been extremely unmotivated most of of my life in terms of school.
I should be studying/spending 10x more time on my class work than the bare minimum I am committing right now.
So its really not the difficulty of college courses causing my low GPA.

For my remaining credits, I can definitely bring my overall GPA up, but I am not sure by how much.
I could take the LSATs again to try and break 175+.

As I mentioned, this is my first thread... I am a SUPA nooby.
I don't expect to get into any T14 schools especially with my current GPA, however, I have not lost hope yet for T2 schools.

I would not apply for a scholarship or financial aid. I expect to pay full tuition if that makes a difference. Anywhere in the country is acceptable as well.

ANY advice would be insanely helpful at this point.

Thank you ahead of time everyone.

[Icculus]

Hello all! This is my first post/thread on TLS.

So here it is:

Junior
Business Economics Major (Could stay an extra semester and get double major in International Business)

cum GPA (so far): 2.29
LSAT:
1st attempt -166
2nd attempt - 173
I have finished about 64-65% of the minimum requirement of credits for graduation.
The remaining 35% of credits are all higher level courses.

I am a slacker. I have been extremely unmotivated most of of my life in terms of school.
I should be studying/spending 10x more time on my class work than the bare minimum I am committing right now.
So its really not the difficulty of college courses causing my low GPA.

For my remaining credits, I can definitely bring my overall GPA up, but I am not sure by how much.
I could take the LSATs again to try and break 175+.

As I mentioned, this is my first thread... I am a SUPA nooby.
I don't expect to get into any T14 schools especially with my current GPA, however, I have not lost hope yet for T2 schools.

I would not apply for a scholarship or financial aid. I expect to pay full tuition if that makes a difference. Anywhere in the country is acceptable as well.

ANY advice would be insanely helpful at this point.

Thank you ahead of time everyone.

Use the search function. Shockingly, you are not the first person on here with a sub 3.0 GPA and a 170+ LSAT.

Best advice:

1. Raise GPA
2. Take a year or two off from school, gain work experience.
3. Decide whether law school is really what you want.
4. Apply to NU with said work experience as well as to an T1 in a region you have ties to/want to work in.

[BullShitWithBravado]

If you are a slacker you should really think about whether law school is a good choice for you. I was a slacker in UG and my bad study habits made my transition to law school somewhat difficult. You should only consider law school if you're confident that you can change your study habits.

[Icculus]

If you are a slacker you should really think about whether law school is a good choice for you. I was a slacker in UG and my bad study habits made my transition to law school somewhat difficult. You should only consider law school if you're confident that you can change your study habits.

This is where

2. Take a year or two off from school, gain work experience.
3. Decide whether law school is really what you want.

comes in, and is advice everyone should consider.

[stone_fox]

If you are set on going to law school you should do anything and everything to raise your GPA. Even if it means taking Art/Music classes at a community college. Also, law schools are not particularly interested in double-majors, espeically if your GPA is still below 3.0. You should do some research on the current job crisis in the legal field. You don't really want to go to a T2/lower T1 unless you get a significant scholly (and even then only if it is located in a region you want to practice in). You have a great LSAT don't waste it.

[tml2891]

Thank you so much for all the replies guys.

I should have clarified. While I have had the habits of a slacker when it came to school work, I know I can turn it around if I really put some effort into it. As of now, law school is what I want.

[tabula rasa]

I know I can turn it around if I really put some effort into it.

Then what are you waiting for?

[tml2891]

I know I can turn it around if I really put some effort into it.

Then what are you waiting for?

I am starting now... hopefully it isn't too late. I was a dummy for too long. I only now realize how badly I messed up.
I am going to aim for a 3.5+ for my remaining three undergrad semesters... hopefully this can bring my overall GPA up.

Btw, what is NU?

"4. Apply to NU with said work experience as well as to an T1 in a region you have ties to/want to work in."

[llachans]

Btw, what is NU?

Northwestern.

[tml2891]

I see 40 credits at a community college in your future.

do schools really care about community college courses? and are you saying I should take 40! credits after undergrad to bring my gpa up? (averaging CC gpa and Uni gpa?)

My university allows CC credits to be transferred in but the grades I get from CC courses does not affect my Uni GPA.

[tml2891]

I see 40 credits at a community college in your future.

do schools really care about community college courses? and are you saying I should take 40! credits after undergrad to bring my gpa up? (averaging CC gpa and Uni gpa?)

My university allows CC credits to be transferred in but the grades I get from CC courses does not affect my Uni GPA.

After you graduate it will be too late. LSAC counts any course you get anywhere before you get your first bachelors. Take a year off, tell your school you're going to backpack through south america or something and then jam as many CC credits as you can. It doesnt matter which ones you UG institution takes, in fact I wouldnt transfer any back. LSAC is going to ask for all transcripts from all schools and as long as you havnt received a degree yet, they will count them regardless of whether or not your B.A./B.A. granting institution does.

Wow! I did not know that. I have much to learn masta... Thanks for this. Gonna PM you a few more questions if you don't mind.

[Tiago Splitter]

I see 40 credits at a community college in your future.

LOL this. Lots of people take seven years to finish college.

[bizzybone1313]

I always wonder how people like you score so high on the LSAT. Studying for the LSAT blows about ten times more than for regular college classes. I guess some of ya'll just show up on test day after having only done 5 PT's and get lucky. I guess with 100,000 test takers there are people who are bound to score high with 2.3 GPA's.

[bizzybone1313]

I always wonder how people like you score so high on the LSAT. Studying for the LSAT blows about ten times more than for regular college classes. I guess some of ya'll just show up on test day after having only done 5 PT's and get lucky. I guess with 100,000 test takers there are people who are bound to score high with 2.3 GPA's.

That whole comment came off like you're a dick. I know you're not, but seriously 95% of that comment was unnecessary.

I wasn't trying to be. It may have come off that way. I just won't ever understand how people find so much more motivation for the LSAT versus Poli. Sci 101 where we learned about hope and change. Most college classes are pretty interesting. Plus, one gets to choose what to study versus the bullshit on the LSAT.

[Ramius]

Hello all! This is my first post/thread on TLS.

So here it is:

Junior
Business Economics Major (Could stay an extra semester and get double major in International Business)

cum GPA (so far): 2.29
LSAT:
1st attempt -166
2nd attempt - 173
I have finished about 64-65% of the minimum requirement of credits for graduation.
The remaining 35% of credits are all higher level courses.

I am a slacker. I have been extremely unmotivated most of of my life in terms of school.
I should be studying/spending 10x more time on my class work than the bare minimum I am committing right now.
So its really not the difficulty of college courses causing my low GPA.

For my remaining credits, I can definitely bring my overall GPA up, but I am not sure by how much.
I could take the LSATs again to try and break 175+.

As I mentioned, this is my first thread... I am a SUPA nooby.
I don't expect to get into any T14 schools especially with my current GPA, however, I have not lost hope yet for T2 schools.

I would not apply for a scholarship or financial aid. I expect to pay full tuition if that makes a difference. Anywhere in the country is acceptable as well.

ANY advice would be insanely helpful at this point.

Thank you ahead of time everyone.

I may be way off, but this seems like a troll. T2 at sticker desires, high LSAT, slacker admission...no one else sees this?

[Ramius]

He PM'd me asking some specific questions, I doubt he's a troll.

Fair enough. Just seemed like a lot of bad ideas and consummate disaster looming in the OP.

[tml2891]

He PM'd me asking some specific questions, I doubt he's a troll.

Fair enough. Just seemed like a lot of bad ideas and consummate disaster looming in the OP.

sorry if i seem like a troll but im not

I made a mistake in my original posting.
For some reason I believed T14 to be Tier 1 and anything below to be T2.
When I meant paying sticker for T2, I really meant schools rank 1~50.

Also, to be fair, I guess "slacker" doesn't seem to be the best representation of my past outlook...
"Unmotivated" might be a better term.

The reason I was able to do better on my LSATs than my GPA/courses is simply because that is just how my mind works.
I have always liked "puzzles", logic, reasoning, etc. So studying for the LSATs wasn't that grueling. However, RC isn't my forte.

% time studying LSAT sections:

50% RC
25% AR
25% LG

It was the same story with my SATs. (Although I did not study for the SATs as much as the LSATs)

My SAT score was 2000. (HS gpa = 2.00-2.5 cant remember)

800- Math
590-600 Reading
590-600 Writing

@bizzybone1313

I understand how you feel. While I do agree a lot of my college courses have been interesting, however, being interested in the material and being motivated to do the work are two different things, in my opinion. Plus, there are a lot of f-ing idiots in a lot of these classes that really make the experience less enjoyable.

P.S. I took about 50 PTs over the course of a summer.

[cahwc12]

I know I can turn it around if I really put some effort into it.

Then what are you waiting for?

I am starting now... hopefully it isn't too late. I was a dummy for too long. I only now realize how badly I messed up.
I am going to aim for a 3.5+ for my remaining three undergrad semesters... hopefully this can bring my overall GPA up.

Don't go to law school. If you can't make or even aspire to make A's in a fluff major like "Business Economics" you are suffering from acute special snowflake syndrome or some other mild form of disillusionment. A 3.5 is not "turning it around." If you have a 2.3, you need a wall of A's to finish your degree, and even then things don't look good for you.

If you're a Junior, you've got about 75 credits. 45 new credits of 3.5 will get you to a 2.75, while straight A's will bring your GPA up to a 2.93 which is still well below every reputable school's 25th percentile. Realistically if you want a shot at a good school with a chance at manageable debt, you need a GPA that will meet or eclipse at least a school's 25th percentile. That 173 is gold, but you've really shit-stained it with your awful GPA.

As it stands, that 173 in this application climate will probably get you into places you have no business being admitted to with that GPA. But do you want to pay $300k to go to a mid or lower T14 so you can finish at or below median with your same work ethic? You need to grow up first before resigning yourself to a life of crippling debt--debt that is real, not like your credit card debt which you can just wake up one day and decide not to pay and then it will eventually go away after some years. Educational debt will stay with you for the rest of your life or until legislation changes.

At or below median at Michigan looks like something akin to a death sentence. And this is the dream scenario for you--it's pretty close to your best possible outcome, and this cycle (and probably next as well) are the best times for you to apply with your situation.

Are you absolutely, positively certain that law school is for you? Because if you were at any point before this semester (for which you have no grades), your GPA would be much closer to a 3.5-4.0, since you would know how vitally important a stellar GPA is to law school admissions. I strongly urge you to consider an alternative career path--one that involves a reasonable possibility of success.

And in case you don't believe that people would be crazy to turn down admission to a top law school without any merit discount, here is a heated discussion of Penn sticker vs. not going to law school. And that this is even a discussion should help illuminate the situation you're in. Your best chance is sticker price at a lower or mid T14, and you're already half-way up shit creek by accepting that deal.

[grace123]

Hi Wayne!
I would spend a lot of time using the "search" function on these boards and reading the sticky threads. That one in all caps that says PLEASE READ BEFORE ASKING YOUR CHANCES? Yeah, that will tell you about the schools you can get into. A ton of stuff you want to know and even more stuff that you should know but don't even know to ask has already been discussed ad nauseum here over the years.

You are selling yourself way short by the way. You definitely can get into a top 14 law school. Here are just a few past threads on your particular subject:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2&t=131768

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2&t=150557

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =1&t=76304

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 5&t=133250

there are dozens more....

[nebula666]

You are obviously very intelligent but I just hope you know that law school exams are not standardized tests you can just whiz without putting in the work.

[Merylian]

I have nothing substantive to offer, I just want to stop in and wish you some luck. You seem to be getting a lot of negativity for not being 100% career/goal-driven from the time you entered college. Truth is, plenty of people make mistakes when they're in school. It doesn't mean they aren't intelligent, or capable of hard work.

I'm sure OP knows he will (or she will?) have to work hard in law school. I'm sure he knows his GPA is a huge hurdle to admissions. Give the guy/gal some credit for coming to ask for advice.

[star fox]

I would challenge the OP to get a 4.0 this semester. If you can't pull at least a 3.8 on the semester then re-consider Law School. It's one thing to say you'll flip the switch and another to do it. Undergrad is going to be significantly easier and with a much lighter workload than Law School. If you're too unmotivated to crank out some Econ homework then I don't know how you expect to get above average grades in Law School compared to people that have had good study skills since high school.

[A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A]

ITT: another sad life is saved by TLS.

[Flips88]

I see 40 credits at a community college in your future.

LOL this. Lots of people take seven years to finish college.

So you're not left hanging...Yeah, Tommy, they're called doctors.

[Crowing]

You do know that work ethic is something that can change. And someone finishing UG with a wall of As is possible proof of that.

Dude fucked up, he knows it. No need to treat him like shit.

fully agree w/ worm

that being said, 3.5 is not enough. OP you need to be gunning for straight As from here on out.