What is my chance? somewhat different/nontraditional softs? Forum

[expelliarmus]

Hi TLSers,
I am asking for a close friend who is applying in the next cycle, and she is currently doing volunteer work in Africa on a fellowship. She showed some concern about her chances in law school, and I decided to open a thread, and let her know what you guys think when we get to talk.

She is a graduate of an ivy (not HYS, but one of the lower ivies). Her grades are decent, with a double major in history and math. And she is an international student from China. Her cumulative GPA of all four years is 3.82-3.85 range (I cannot remember exactly), and her LSAT is 177. She told me that there was a bad quarter (fall quarter) in her junior year, where she got 3 As and 2 Cs due to the death/illness of a close family member.

She has somewhat interesting softs:
first, she founded a start-up company in undergrad, and it was quite successful and she donated all the profits to nonprofit foundations for kids of migrant workers.
Second, she published a book in her junior year about undergrad experience in the US, and it is quite popular among high school students and parents considering undergrad in the states.
Third, she is doing a fellowship in Ethiopia for social entrepreneurship that helps the local community economically.

She will be applying when she is two years out of undergrad, the first year spent working at Infosys in India on marketing, and the second year at a fellowship in Africa.

I understand her GPA is slightly sub-par for Harvard standards, but is her softs going to help her? And what about $$$ at CCN?

Thank you for your input, and I will let her know once I read the responses. Thanks!

[nebula666]

http://myLSN.info/6w4k31

[JamesDean1955]

Flame.

[expelliarmus]

I don't see why it is flame. I do know her pretty well throughout childhood and undergrad.

So if it just a numbers game, and her softs do not matter, then the LSN data would be predictable - but is that the case?

[JamesDean1955]

Assuming this is not a flame, IMO she is a lock at Harvard, WL --> In at Stanford (or just IN), and tossup at Yale.

And that's based on the numbers alone. I personally think that mylsn tool sucks and underestimates people's chances, for numerous reasons including using a small and unrepresentative sample size, counting waitlists as denials, etc. My opinion anyways.

Those sound like great softs that would certainly inmprove her chances at Stanford and Yale.

EDIT: And definitely $$ - $$$ at CCN.

[expelliarmus]

I looked at the LSN data you directed me to, and I am amazed to see that some people in her range are also denied by Columbia AND Harvard (and of course Sand Y) - I am just wondering if the data sample size is too small (like you mentioned) to amount to anything, or what is going on?
And her chances are sort of slim according to LSN data on Stanford and Yale, possibly due to the 3.85- GPA.

And that's certainly good news to know that she may get some money at CNN. In this case, will her international status matter? She will probably not be able to get federal aid.

[TheThriller]

why does she want to go to law school?

[dnptan]

Hey,

Those are good numbers/softs. However I do have to raise a few questions regarding the latter.

1) Running a start-up. You mentioned that your friend founded one as an undergrad, yet she is an international student. As an international student that also co-founded a start-up, I know that doing this solo is an impossibility.

Under an F-1 Visa you are not allowed to run your business. I served as the "Chief Clinical Trial Officer" of my company and was not "employed". I only earned shares and my "office" was merely a designation for my role in handling research. tldr; international students CANNOT run a business in the US.

2) Profits. Even if successful (and awesome - mine failed), profits of a startup cannot be freely donated. If your friend served in the startup as a manager (not a business runner) she could not donate the company's profits, as it wasn't hers - it was the company's. Most successful startups are sold as their founders move on with their lives. I have not met a single person involved in a successful (unsold) startup that wasn't still involved with it. And I know a lot of people involved in startups.

If your friend lied to you, just warn her that the AdComm is made out of lawyers, and if I can spot inconsistencies, I'm 100% sure so will they.

Otherwise, Y - WL; else - in.

[expelliarmus]

I think her start-up is registered in China, but the business somewhat involves the US. Sorry, that is my problem - I should have mentioned that in detail earlier. I just did not think that's relevant.

The profits/transactions are also conducted in China, so it has nothing to do with US law - or from my knowledge, I don't know what it has to do with US law regarding registering start-ups as an international student.

Because what she is doing is a booming market in China, she can actually earn some considerable profit - and I do know that is real.
However, if you are asking about the legal transactions about the start-up company, and the exact number she donated to the schools - I am afraid I can only say, I don't know. I suspect it is not a lot of money given her revenue, but it is a sustainable amount to make some changes to the school she is helping. And of course, she donates what her business model allows her to donate each year, not as an one time thing.

[expelliarmus]

why does she want to go to law school?

In fact, this I cannot answer for her. Simply put, I think she wants to be a lawyer.

[Ti Malice]

I personally think that mylsn tool sucks and underestimates people's chances, for numerous reasons including using a small and unrepresentative sample size, counting waitlists as denials, etc. My opinion anyways.

These are weak critiques of what is easily the best tool available for estimating one's chances of admission. The sample size is actually quite significant and is more than sufficient for all higher-ranked schools. Furthermore, the fact that strong applicants are overrepresented is not terribly important. Including more auto-reject applicants whose numbers fall well below thresholds for admission would not improve the data's reliability, because the purpose of myLSN is not to infer an overall acceptance rate to a particular school from the available data (that would be pointless, as we already have that data). The sample size is far more than adequate to allow us to accurately delineate clear patterns in the admissions practices of different law schools, which is the basis of the tool's strength.

Counting waitlists as denials is hardly a problem, either. There's an option to exclude waitlists from consideration. Because LSN users do not reliably update their statuses after accepting admission to a particular school, there is no way to treat this data with greater accuracy. However, it is clear that the majority of waitlisted applicants overall are ultimately rejected, which justifies the myLSN default setting. A little knowledge about particular schools' admissions practices with regard to waitlists allows you to make a fair approximation of the outcome yourself.

[expelliarmus]

I think the only problem is that some people will not post their actual results after March/April-ish, but that's when the last wave of admissions would come in. So that might be slightly problematic - however, LSN is as accurate as it gets for filling in the gaps between 25/50/75 official data.