Splitter with two retakes: any chance at HYS? CCN? Forum

[philepistemer]

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[Tom Joad]

Damn, nice improvement. Probably out at Yale, Harvard, and Stanford because of the low GPA, but worth applications to find out. Probably in at NYU and Columbia though.

edit: nevermind, Harvard might be good to you.

[Ti Malice]

On the June 2012 and October 2012 LSATs I scored 167 and 166 respectively. This was incredibly frustrating since I was consistently scoring in the high 170s on practice tests. I took the December test with basically no additional studying, and I scored a 178. My GPA is a 3.71. My softs are probably average for people who are accepted into top law schools.

This late in the cycle (I have a good reason for applying late, no criticism is necessary), do I have any chance at getting into Yale, Harvard or Stanford? I'm guessing that a first-time 178 and 3.71 would have a very good shot at getting into at any of HYS, but I was wondering if anyone has an idea of how my previous scores will hurt me. Also, what are my chances of getting into/getting money at Chicago, Columbia or NYU?

Congrats on the 178!

Your odds at YLS are basically zero because of the GPA, and they're not much better at SLS. You have a good shot at HLS, as you're above their GPA floor. Applying early for HLS does make some difference, though. As for the earlier scores, I don't think they will make any difference at HCCN.

Speaking of CCN, you're a lock to CLS and NYU. Chicago is less predictable because of their small class and the fact that they've become pickier about GPAs in recent cycles; you could end up on the WL there. You will get substantial money at this level, though your GPA is likely too low to get Butler/Hamilton/Rubenstein-level scholarships. It's unlikely that you will get the kind of money that would make it worth declining HLS, assuming you have that luxury.

[nebula666]

Enjoy Harvard and down (though Penn likes to waitlist people w/ your numbers). You aren't getting YS but will get $$ from everywhere below H.

[suralin]

Enjoy Harvard and down (though Penn likes to waitlist people w/ your numbers). You aren't getting YS but will get $$ from everywhere below H.

+1. Congrats on the big improvement OP

[sinfiery]

http://myLSN.info/uukp06



Better chance at Harvard than I first expected.

[banjo]

Excellent shot at a JS1, but not a lock at H. In everywhere else.

eta: previous scores won't hurt. They might ask about it during your JS1 though, so have a good answer.

[philepistemer]

I appreciate your responses, and I hope you all are correct about my odds since I would absolutely love attending any T6 school. However, I'm still skeptical of the assertion that HCCN wont care that much about my previous scores. Admissions sites suggest that these schools either average multiple LSATs (NYU) or they "take the entire testing history into account" (the others), and I'm guessing that there are few cases similar to mine (ie three LSATs with one being 11+ points higher than the others) that could act as a relevant test of at least the latter suggestion vis-à-vis my situation.

Most of these schools suggest writing an addendum to explain conspicuous LSAT variation. In my case, the variation is explained by LG performance. I missed around ten questions on the LG sections on each of the June and October LSATs, but I only missed one question on LG during the December administration. My previous poor performances stemmed from a couple of rule misinterpretations (along the lines of treating "at least x distance apart" as "exactly x distance apart") that killed me on what should have been easy games. I consistently missed few questions on CR or LR on real LSATs, and a lack of secular or sharp improvement on any section during practice tests leads my to believe that neither increased study nor change of habit were responsible for the increase in my LSAT score. My question is: would an addendum similar to the explanation I have just given be looked upon favorably by law schools?

[Ti Malice]

The schools are lying. They only care about your highest score because your highest score is the only one used for the USNWR rankings. Y and S can afford to penalize you for having lower scores, but no other school can, and especially not in the current environment of declining numbers of high-scorers. One visit to lawschoolnumbers.com will show you just how laughable NYU's claim is.

As for an addendum, do not write one unless specifically asked by someone from the school. (But do be aware that you would probably be asked to explain the variation in a Harvard interview). The only LSAT addenda worth submitting involve death of a family member just before the test, loud construction noise outside the test center that the proctor documented with the LSAC, or other purely external circumstances that would be similarly detrimental to your performance.

[John_rizzy_rawls]

http://myLSN.info/uukp06
Better chance at Harvard than I first expected.

Even better when you use 3.7/178 as the starting point.

Harvard - 14 admits, 1 denial, 3 waitlists - 78%.

http://mylsn.info/dispresults.php

[Tiago Splitter]

I appreciate your responses, and I hope you all are correct about my odds since I would absolutely love attending any T6 school. However, I'm still skeptical of the assertion that HCCN wont care that much about my previous scores. Admissions sites suggest that these schools either average multiple LSATs (NYU) or they "take the entire testing history into account" (the others), and I'm guessing that there are few cases similar to mine (ie three LSATs with one being 11+ points higher than the others) that could act as a relevant test of at least the latter suggestion vis-à-vis my situation.

There's a dude on TLS who went 166, 166, 176 and is now attending NYU with 60K in scholarship money. He had a 3.5 UG GPA. You'll be fine.

And don't worry about the addendum. You did poorly on games twice then got your stuff figured out. Nothing to see here.