4.07 LSAC GPA, 168 LSAT-- Stanford/CLS?? Forum

[delarge3]

I know you're probably going to say retake. Which is not happening, so just want opinions about Stanford/Columbia chances with those numbers (4.07/168).

UGPA: 3.98 (adjusted to 4.07 by LSAC)

Softs: BS/MS in Chemical Engineering, 3.5 yrs WE in biochem R&D, AmeriCorps volunteer while in college (forgot to mention that on NYU/Berkeley applications. damnit.), good LORs I think, non-URM but sort of "diverse" (is that even a thing? born through HS in non-english speaking country). PS is about work experience.

myLSN doesn't have a ton of data points with my stats, for example giving me a better shot at Yale (2 data points) than Chicago (3 data points)

[nebula666]

Most likely out at both. You could be waitlisted though. Same with Chicago. You have good chances at NYU-Penn and are in at everywhere else in the T14, but probably waitlisted at Duke.

I know you said you won't retake but 2 more points will get you competitive at S, H, C and closer to chances at Yale.

[delarge3]

I know you said you won't retake but 2 more points will get you competitive at S, H, C and closer to chances at Yale

Thanks nebula

I know, I know... but I'm not going thru that thing again. My top choices are NYU/Columbia (live in NYC) and don't really care for YH.

Is it even worth taking my chances with the applications to CLS/Stanford? or will I just be out the fee?

[WhiteyCakes]

retake

[nebula666]

You are very likely to be waitlisted at Columbia and possibly at Stanford, so it's not a waste of an app.

[alex.feuerman]

I know you said you won't retake but 2 more points will get you competitive at S, H, C and closer to chances at Yale

Thanks nebula

I know, I know... but I'm not going thru that thing again. My top choices are NYU/Columbia (live in NYC) and don't really care for YH.

Is it even worth taking my chances with the applications to CLS/Stanford? or will I just be out the fee?

Yes it's worth it. Why not? I never thought I had a chance at NYU and got in

[Doorkeeper]

You seriously need to retake. Right now, you will be lucky to get waitlisted at S, H, and Columbia. You will get into at least one of Chicago or NYU, but you will probably not crack HYS unless you get pulled off of the WL.

With a 3 point score increase, you turn your 10% odds at Harvard into 60% odds and you become a near lock at Columbia.

You need to retake.

[delarge3]

With a 3 point score increase, you turn your 10% odds at Harvard into 60% odds and you become a near lock at Columbia

I know this- but I don't think it's worth the effort. Another 3-4 months of intense suffering/studying/working full time then waiting until the next cycle to get into HYS, just seems like a waste of time if I can get into NYU and pretty much be guaranteed a job after graduation (going into patent law, being cautious but optimistic about employment prospects from NYU).

I truely appreciate the advice, Doorkeeper, I've read your comments on (nearly all) other threads and you seem like you know what you're talking about. But I have no desire to move to New Haven or Boston. Even Stanford is a stretch for me... Berkeley/NYU is within reach, maybe not with great/any money, but still.

On a sidenote: if I retake and get 171+, will I be able to get $$$ for this cycle from NYU/Berkeley if I get in before Feb. 2012 LSAT results are in? Does anyone know?

[Ti Malice]

With a 3 point score increase, you turn your 10% odds at Harvard into 60% odds and you become a near lock at Columbia

I know this- but I don't think it's worth the effort. Another 3-4 months of intense suffering/studying/working full time then waiting until the next cycle to get into HYS, just seems like a waste of time if I can get into NYU and pretty much be guaranteed a job after graduation (going into patent law, being cautious but optimistic about employment prospects from NYU).

I truely appreciate the advice, Doorkeeper, I've read your comments on (nearly all) other threads and you seem like you know what you're talking about. But I have no desire to move to New Haven or Boston. Even Stanford is a stretch for me... Berkeley/NYU is within reach, maybe not with great/any money, but still.

On a sidenote: if I retake and get 171+, will I be able to get $$$ for this cycle from NYU/Berkeley if I get in before Feb. 2012 LSAT results are in? Does anyone know?

It's hard to predict anything about money this cycle with a February retake; I think but you would probably get some. You would definitely get plenty of money from NYU with a 171+ next cycle. Which is another reason to retake.

Just treat LSAT prep as a job. Assuming you improve three or more points, a retake in June could be worth $75-225K in tuition and loan interest savings, and possibly a lot more when you add in career earnings.

[TripTrip]

The deadline for most NYU scholarships was January 1st, so if you haven't applied yet you're out for those.

I think they have a dean's scholarship, or whatever it's called there, but that's to drawn applicants away from HYSCC... so if you're not a viable candidate at those schools, you're not likely to look at any $$$.

OP, I know retaking sucks, but I was in the exact same position as you. I had a 4.0/168. I slaved away while working full-time and going to school full-time to study for the Dec LSAT. I got a 175. Now instead of worrying about whether I'll get into the T14, I'm all but guaranteed cash money at CCN/MVPB. Feels good man, I promise it's worth it.

[delarge3]

Ti Malice and TripTrip- I'm sure this is solid advice which I should follow. But I won't. TripTrip, congrats on that 175, seriously amazing. I think that if I got a 168 in June/October I would for sure retake in December. But seeing as I would have to wait another cycle with a retake now I honestly don't think it's worth my time. I did apply to the AnBryce on NYU (hopefully they'll accept the app even though the CAS report was delayed 3 days because of Dec score) so there's that. I also think I have an ok shot at some $$ from Berkeley as I'm above both medians. You don't think Berkeley or lower T14 money would get me some cash at NYU (on the hypo that I get in)?

I know law school "will be there next year also", but I don't want to wait until I'm 28 to start. It's another year I have to do in my current job, and I'm over my current job. I'm also not that confident I can improve my score much without quitting my job and dedicating a full time effort to it- english is a second language so RC/LR was a struggle. My highest PT was 171, and my average over 6 PTs was 167, so was very happy with 168. Don't think quitting an 80K/yr job to study for LSAT then wait a year is a good option... right?

[IAFG]

You shouldn't retake for Yale, you should re-take for the crippling debt. CRIPPLING DEBT. Why don't you ask some of your number twins who are 3Ls/grads now if they wish they had retaken? I am sure they felt the same way about retaking then as you do now. It sucks. But writing that $3k student loan payment (about what, 1/3 of your take home pay? More?) every month sucks worse.

[dingbat]

I'm happy with where I ended up and I still regret not retaking.

[delarge3]

But writing that $3k student loan payment (about what, 1/3 of your take home pay? More?) every month sucks worse.

Yes- you're right, it sucks. I know because that's exactly what I did for 3 years after undergrad. Had massive debt from a tuition-inflated private school. But with a good paying job and self-restraint I was able to pay it all back in just under 3 years, and that felt great.

So while I know that I will have to slave away for 5-6 years after LS to pay it all back (assuming 40k/yr payback rate), I'll take the gamble that the patent field will still be in demand for T14 grads. With a 100k/yr take home, I can live comfortably on ~5k/month for a few years, while doing something challenging that I like (hopefully?).

[IAFG]

But writing that $3k student loan payment (about what, 1/3 of your take home pay? More?) every month sucks worse.

Yes- you're right, it sucks. I know because that's exactly what I did for 3 years after undergrad. Had massive debt from a tuition-inflated private school. But with a good paying job and self-restraint I was able to pay it all back in just under 3 years, and that felt great.

So while I know that I will have to slave away for 5-6 years after LS to pay it all back (assuming 40k/yr payback rate), I'll take the gamble that the patent field will still be in demand for T14 grads. With a 100k/yr take home, I can live comfortably on ~5k/month for a few years, while doing something challenging that I like (hopefully?).

Yes it can be done, but it doesn't have to be. I agree, you are probably safe on getting a well-paying job. You're just putting yourself in a worse position than you could. If I were you I would try for a lower t14 with money.

[delarge3]

If I were you I would try for a lower t14 with money

In that case- at which ones do you think I'd have the best shot at some good $$? I'm amenable to Michigan (gf from there/ will likely be ok with moving there)

[delarge3]

I'm happy with where I ended up and I still regret not retaking.

dingbat- which is where? with what scholly? what is your prospective field?

(if you don't mind me asking )

[suralin]

Ti Malice and TripTrip- I'm sure this is solid advice which I should follow. But I won't. TripTrip, congrats on that 175, seriously amazing. I think that if I got a 168 in June/October I would for sure retake in December. But seeing as I would have to wait another cycle with a retake now I honestly don't think it's worth my time. I did apply to the AnBryce on NYU (hopefully they'll accept the app even though the CAS report was delayed 3 days because of Dec score) so there's that. I also think I have an ok shot at some $$ from Berkeley as I'm above both medians. You don't think Berkeley or lower T14 money would get me some cash at NYU (on the hypo that I get in)?

I know law school "will be there next year also", but I don't want to wait until I'm 28 to start. It's another year I have to do in my current job, and I'm over my current job. I'm also not that confident I can improve my score much without quitting my job and dedicating a full time effort to it- english is a second language so RC/LR was a struggle. My highest PT was 171, and my average over 6 PTs was 167, so was very happy with 168. Don't think quitting an 80K/yr job to study for LSAT then wait a year is a good option... right?

Six PTs!? Seriously though, you only took 6 PTs? If you didn't study that extensively, the retake mantra becomes even more applicable.

Although if you're certain you'll enjoy patent law, then yeah, you're as close as it is possible in the legal market to be guaranteed a well-paying job. In your situation, I'd take $$$ at a T14 over higher ranking/prestige/employment prospects.

[delarge3]

Six PTs!? Seriously though, you only took 6 PTs?

Seven, if you include the diagnostic. Do you really not think that's enough?

[francesfarmer]

Six PTs!? Seriously though, you only took 6 PTs?

Seven, if you include the diagnostic. Do you really not think that's enough?

Are you fucking joking?

[Rahviveh]

Im also happy with my situation, but if I had the chance to shoot for HYS by retaking I would do it in a heartbeat, and I took the LSAT twice. I regret my shit GPA every single day.

[delarge3]

Six PTs!? Seriously though, you only took 6 PTs?

Seven, if you include the diagnostic. Do you really not think that's enough?

Are you fucking joking?

No. I just didn't see the point of taking test after test. The first few couple were low 160s, I improved to high 160s with max 171, then plateaued. I did take a bunch of timed sections and like I said previously, LR/RC was generally a struggle (consistently got 4-5 wrong on those sections).

[Rahviveh]

Six PTs!? Seriously though, you only took 6 PTs?

Seven, if you include the diagnostic. Do you really not think that's enough?

Are you fucking joking?

No. I just didn't see the point of taking test after test. The first few couple were low 160s, I improved to high 160s with max 171, then plateaued. I did take a bunch of timed sections and like I said previously, LR/RC was generally a struggle (consistently got 4-5 wrong on those sections).

Drilling by type is a lot more useful than taking test after test, especially for LR once you're approaching the high end. How long did you study for?

[francesfarmer]

I think its still crazy to only take 7 PTs. You will underperform if you aren't used to taking an entire 5 section test (and at 8 in the morning to boot).

[delarge3]

2.5 months (started mid sept. 2012)