169 (third try) 4.14 Forum

[kfischm1]

Softs:
Have lived/studied/worked/volunteered in five countries.
PS is about why I want to work in non-profit law helping immigrants.
Extensive volunteer work with immigrant communities.
Speak fluent Spanish.
Non-URM.
This is my second year out of undergrad.
A couple of leadership roles in undergrad (nothing too prestigious).

Previous LSATs: 158, 159

Dream school is Stanford, though I think it is a long shot still.

What are my chances in the T-14? I'm worried about some of them (Harvard, NYC) averaging scores still (My 169 becomes a 162 then which isn't as impressive)

Edited for outcome for anyone who might check this thread in the future:

In: NYU ($$), Chicago ($), UVA ($$), Duke ($$), Penn (none), Michigan ($$), Berkeley (need-based only), Cornell (withdrew before any scholly notification), Georgetown (withdrew before scholly offers)
Waitlisted: Harvard ---->IN!!!!!!!, Stanford (withdrew)
Did not apply: Yale, Columbia, Northwestern

After being held, waitlisted, JS1 and JS1b, on 5/22 I received a JS2! I will be officially attending Harvard Law this fall. Though I have a "super GPA," when comparing to the other people who have been admitted off the waitlist so far, I am convinced that it was my softs and personal statement that got me accepted.

Best of luck to all those applying in future cycles!! TLS has been a tremendous help, and I hope my information is useful. If you want more details on my cycle: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/katfishie27.

[badaboom61]

I had same numbers (though no retake) and got 2 of CCN. This year might be easier cycle than 2 years ago though. Apply everywhere.

[helix23]

Other posters on here are more knowledgeable about what schools are willing to look the other way on the LSAT and take that gpa, but

http://myLSN.info/ob3n0d

looks like it's worth throwing apps at CCN down. looks like you are a lock at Georgetown and Cornell.

Probably have to write an addendum for your LSAT

[TheThriller]

I had same numbers (though no retake) and got 2 of CCN. This year might be easier cycle than 2 years ago though. Apply everywhere.

Berkeley would probably love that GPA

[Doorkeeper]

You've got a great shot at Chicago and NYU. You have a shot at Stanford, but expect a WL. Harvard and Columbia like LSAT a bit more, so I don't think you'll get in there unless apps go down a lot more.

[kfischm1]

Update so far for anyone who might check this thread in the future:

In: NYU ($$), Chicago ($), UVA ($$), Duke ($$), Penn (none), Michigan ($$), Berkeley (need-based only), Cornell (withdrew before any scholly notification), Georgetown (withdrew before scholly offers)
Waitlisted: Harvard, Stanford
Did not apply: Yale, Columbia, Northwestern

I'll try and remember to update on what happens with H/S

[lovejopd]

Congrats!

How did you make a huge jump onnur 3rd try? Wow

[ManOfTheMinute]

Those first two scores are going to limit your ability to crack HYS (prob get WLed at one or two, but won't get off the WL). You're a lock of NYU, and columbia is a real possibility... Chicago is 50/50.

Of course, if you have a good addendum for why your scores went from not so good (twice no less) to acceptable for these schools, you might be able to bag CCN and one of HYS...

[MyNameIsFlynn!]

Those first two scores are going to limit your ability to crack HYS (prob get WLed at one or two, but won't get off the WL). You're a lock of NYU, and columbia is a real possibility... Chicago is 50/50.

Of course, if you have a good addendum for why your scores went from not so good (twice no less) to acceptable for these schools, you might be able to bag CCN and one of HYS...

lol motm.

[Gamine]

Update so far for anyone who might check this thread in the future:

In: NYU ($$), Chicago ($), UVA ($$), Duke ($$), Penn (none), Michigan ($$), Berkeley (need-based only), Cornell (withdrew before any scholly notification), Georgetown (withdrew before scholly offers)
Waitlisted: Harvard, Stanford
Did not apply: Yale, Columbia, Northwestern

I'll try and remember to update on what happens with H/S

Yay you! I hope you get H or S (or both!) Congrats to you for having the determination to do it a third time after the minimal increase in your second attempt. When did you take your three exams and what did you do differently between each exam? Best of luck for the rest of the cycle!

[kfischm1]

Update so far for anyone who might check this thread in the future:

In: NYU ($$), Chicago ($), UVA ($$), Duke ($$), Penn (none), Michigan ($$), Berkeley (need-based only), Cornell (withdrew before any scholly notification), Georgetown (withdrew before scholly offers)
Waitlisted: Harvard, Stanford
Did not apply: Yale, Columbia, Northwestern

I'll try and remember to update on what happens with H/S

Yay you! I hope you get H or S (or both!) Congrats to you for having the determination to do it a third time after the minimal increase in your second attempt. When did you take your three exams and what did you do differently between each exam? Best of luck for the rest of the cycle!

Basically I took the LSAT the first two times while I was an undergraduate, once in Feb. 2010 and then again in October 2010. I was super busy with everything and didn't take the time I needed to study. Yes, that was very stupid, I now know. I was naive in thinking that I had always been a good test taker, aced the ACT, etc. I should have taken time off/cut back on activities/whatever and devoted proper time to studying, but I didn't. I was planning on doing the whole K-JD thing at the time. After applying to law schools with my first two LSAT scores and being disappointed, I decided to take a one year job offer overseas and delay law school. That was a hard decision. I kept thinking that I had already taken it twice and was probably just going to be wasting more money, and everyone was saying that if I didn't increase it the second time, I probably wasn't going to increase my score much a third time. When I saw a girl I went to high school with in my small town get into Harvard Law, I thought, if she can do that, so can I. (Ok, a little silly I know. But it motivated me to take it the third time, and now I am glad I did.) While I was overseas, I had lots of free time (I was working full time, but I didn't have a packed schedule 24/7 like in college) So I spent about two months studying, as in almost daily studying, and took the LSAT the last time in December 2011 in Madrid. I bought the Powerscore Bibles for Reading Comprehension, Logical Reasoning and Logic Games, which helped a lot with Logic Games and strategies because those were killing my score. I also used a book called Grouped by Game Type, giving me practice on each type of game until I mastered them. But I think what helped the most was buying about 20 of the most recent full LSAT tests (since the format changed in the mid 2000s (?), the older ones aren't the best to use) and taking them under timed conditions like on test day. That got me used to pacing myself, and on test day it felt almost like any other practice test I had taken, and I didn't leave the building wanting to rip my hair out.

I wrote an addendum explaining my score discrepancy (pretty much what I said above, but of course more elloquantly) I wrote about how while I know being busy isn't an excuse for not doing as well as I expected, I thought my last score represented my true ability as a scholar when I put my all of my effort and focus into my academic endeavors. I didn't blame everyone else - I accepted that I made a mistake in not preparing the first time and said how I learned the importance of balance and prioritizing. Even with the addendum, Chicago still asked about the score jump in my interview. I think that with the drop in the number of test takers, schools are overlooking lower test scores and taking the best, as long as the person has a decent reason for the big jump, especially since they just have to report the highest score for rankings.

In summary for anyone contemplating a second/third attempt: Buy the Powerscore Bibles and Grouped by Game Type, buy about 20 of the most recently administered LSATs and take them under TIMED CONDITIONS, and then write an addendum when you get your new awesome score.

[bizzybone1313]

So where are you leaning towards attending? Your options are real solid. Tough decision. We appreciate you coming back and telling us your options. A lot of guys like you normally create a post to ask for advice and never come back and actually tell everyone what you ended up doing.

[jrsbaseball5]

Congrats OP!

I do appreciate you coming back and updating your cycle. It is definitely helpful to future applicants (like myself) to see how things turned out for you.

Best of luck

[kfischm1]

So where are you leaning towards attending? Your options are real solid. Tough decision. We appreciate you coming back and telling us your options. A lot of guys like you normally create a post to ask for advice and never come back and actually tell everyone what you ended up doing.

Well I was all set on attending UVA because of the immigration clinic, low cost of living and best overall scholarship offer ($90,000 total compared to $72,000 at Duke, $67,500 at Michigan and $45,000 at Chicago). The deposit deadline for scholarship recipients was 4/5, so I submitted a deposit on 4/4.

But NYU emailed me my financial aid package on 4/25, with a deposit deadline of 5/3 - with a Dean's Scholarship offer of $75,000-$90,000, depending on whether I do PI work the summer before 3L (which I plan on doing, making it $90,000). Now I am completely torn and have to decide by tomorrow if I am going to deposit at NYU and withdraw from UVA. I want to do public interest immigration law, so NYU seems to make the most sense, even with the higher COA.

Another lesson I've learned from this cycle - It's not over until it is over. I applied at NYU in September and heard nothing until the last week of March. I had long given up, assuming I would be waitlisted at best. I was definitely shocked to answer my phone and to hear the dean offering me admission. After being accepted so late and given my numbers, I didn't expect any scholarship offers. So getting that email last week was definitely a shock.

[kfischm1]

Accepted at Harvard Law today!!!! Still in shock!!!

[TripTrip]

looks like it's worth throwing apps at CCN down.

Accepted at Harvard Law today!!!! Still in shock!!!

Looks like a good point to learn from.

Congrats OP!

[John_rizzy_rawls]

Good story. Well done OP.

[Dr. Dre]

damn that's pretty awesome, OP.

especially considering 158 —> 159 —> 169

the people who don't want to retake (cause of laziness or whatever reason) should see this thread...

[J-e-L-L-o]

Congratulations! You handled everything extremely well

[Gamine]

Just came back to check on this and I saw the update! Congrats on Harvard! You rock!!! Will you be attending or are have you decided on somewhere else

[Gamine]

damn that's pretty awesome, OP.

especially considering 158 —> 159 —> 169

the people who don't want to retake (cause of laziness or whatever reason) should see this thread...

So very true!!!! I'm super motivated...back to hitting the books!!!

[sublime]

..

[Br3v]

Good story. Well done OP.

[North]

Those first two scores are going to limit your ability to crack HYS (prob get WLed at one or two, but won't get off the WL). You're a lock of NYU, and columbia is a real possibility... Chicago is 50/50.

Of course, if you have a good addendum for why your scores went from not so good (twice no less) to acceptable for these schools, you might be able to bag CCN and one of HYS...

Well this was prescientAF.

[kfischm1]

damn that's pretty awesome, OP.

especially considering 158 —> 159 —> 169

the people who don't want to retake (cause of laziness or whatever reason) should see this thread...

So very true!!!! I'm super motivated...back to hitting the books!!!

Good luck! I was THIS close to not taking the LSAT a third time and considered paying sticker for schools that barely broke the top 50. Take the time needed to properly study and prepare yourself for the test. Two or three months may seem like a lot of sacrifice of your time (and possibly money if you need to work a little less in order to study), but a couple of points can make a difference between not only an acceptance and rejection, but also paying sticker and a decent scholarship, easily making up for it. Don't worry about everyone who says you won't increase your score. But do make sure you are honest with yourself about what "went wrong" or what your weaknesses were when you took it previously and then work on perfecting that. Obviously, if you put 110% in the first time you took the LSAT and test conditions were perfect, retaking isn't going to help much. Now get to studying and rock the next LSAT, and then be sure to hit me up when you are accepted to Harvard next year