168/3.5. ED at UVA a futile effort? Forum

[Doovyhan]

Have full time WE for about 2 years at various spots, though not super impressive.
International status, though no URM.
I know my numbers are only 'okay,' but do you think it's worth pursuing binding ED at UVA?

My top choice is Georgetown, but Georgetown's tough to get in with my numbers.
What are my realistic targets? I'm willing to do ED at anywhere if it gets me to higher rank.

[paulinaporizkova]

I predict ED rejection at UVa, in off the waitlist at GULC if you're lucky

[SaintsTheMetal]

If your top choice is Georgetown, why not ED to Georgetown? The ED will only help, unless you are holding out for a scholarship (unlikely)

[Doovyhan]

Thanks for the comments. I'd ED GULC as well, but I learned today that UVA also had ED, which I wasn't aware of. So it got me thinking, hmm would I have a shot at UVA with ED? So I figured I'd ask on the forum. It sounds like I'd be better of doing GULC ED.

[Ti Malice]

You're below both medians at UVA, so ED is not going to get you in.

[sundance95]

Given the trend of app #s dropping, you might have a shot at UVA ED next cycle. If its still UVA's policy to respond to ED apps within 14 days, ED to UVA the day apps open, then ED GULC after if you get dinged. You get two bites at the apple that way.

[Real Madrid]

Do not even waste an application on UVA. ED or not, you literally have 0% chance of getting in. Sorry, but them's the breaks.

You have a shot at Cornell EA, though.

[mr.hands]

Do not even waste an application on UVA. ED or not, you literally have 0% chance of getting in. Sorry, but them's the breaks.

You have a shot at Cornell EA, though.

+1. UVA is out. There's no chance unless you're a URM

Solid shot at Cornell and a decent shot at GULC. Send your apps in early, though. That will make or break your cycle

Good luck!

EDIT: Top30man had a good point, below. When I said "early" i mean before the EA deadline. It's nonbinding and I think you'll get in if you send in a super early application with a halfway decent 300 word "Why Cornell" mini-essay. Cornell's lower LSAT median from last year will really help you out, too. That is your only good shot at T14. You can still ED to GULC if you'd like.

[top30man]

UVA won't happen. At all. I'd ED Gulc I guess but you're below both medians there. EA Cornell is probably your best shot.

[Yardbird]

Given the trend of app #s dropping, you might have a shot at UVA ED next cycle. If its still UVA's policy to respond to ED apps within 14 days, ED to UVA the day apps open, then ED GULC after if you get dinged. You get two bites at the apple that way.

Its 15 days =P To the OP, you could always try and if you get rejected, ED GULC (and if you get rejected blanket your choice of T30 minus HYSB).

[fogcue2]

Slightly lower numbers 2 years ago, WL Georgetown, WL Cornell, plenty of money from T-30's (rejected at UCLA and BC, but slightly below 3.5 and guessing they had a floor in place 2 years ago). '

Having hit the biglaw SA, the T-30 with money is not a bad option assuming you can accept what your getting into (even at lower T-14, 50% are missing biglaw, so it's a good idea to have a backup plan in place)

[franklyscarlet]

Have full time WE for about 2 years at various spots, though not super impressive.
International status, though no URM.
I know my numbers are only 'okay,' but do you think it's worth pursuing binding ED at UVA?

My top choice is Georgetown, but Georgetown's tough to get in with my numbers.
What are my realistic targets? I'm willing to do ED at anywhere if it gets me to higher rank.

same numbers, same amount of work experience and UVA was my only straight rejection (RD, not ED). Georgetown seems like a good bet though (I got in there fairly quickly). NU and Mich are also worth an app, though longshots- I think the mini-boost from "other hispanic" is what got me those two.

[mr.hands]

UVA won't happen. At all. I'd ED Gulc I guess but you're below both medians there. EA Cornell is probably your best shot.

I had higher numbers than you, in both GPA and LSAT, and got waitlisted. You're at their GPA 25% and well bellow their LSAT median. Zero chance.

People seem to be overestimating the boost that applicants are going to get this cycle as a result of the declining apps. If you're below both medians, you're still in trouble (regardless of the number of applications submitted this cycle)

[kingjones59]

Given the trend of app #s dropping, you might have a shot at UVA ED next cycle. If its still UVA's policy to respond to ED apps within 14 days, ED to UVA the day apps open, then ED GULC after if you get dinged. You get two bites at the apple that way.

UVA's LSAT Median stayed the same, and their GPA went up along with their class size last cycle in what will probably be the biggest one year drop in apps we will see in the next few years. No shot, sorry

[SoulSoldSeparately]

I don't understand the people who are saying that he's got a 0% chance at being accepted to University of Virginia Law, especially with the statistics being quoted. Take kingjones59' response, for instance. He says "No shot, sorry". For one thing, who is this person to state that the would-be applicant has no shot? Can I see those tea leaves? His crystal ball? Other people are referencing the median scores at UVa, pointing out that 3.5/168 are in the 25th-percentile "area" - hence, the 0% chance of acceptance. If 3.5/168 were at zero-percentile (everyone currently enrolled at UVa had a GPA greater than 3.5 and everyone at UVa had an LSAT score higher than 168), I'd say his chances were slim, but even then there can be other factors which could make him a good candidate. I don't know the exact figures, but suppose that his scores are at [what is typically] the 25th percentile for an entering class. I know that GPA and LSAT are the two critical data points, but the 25th percentile equates to 3.5/168 being as high as or higher than 25% of the scores in the applicant pool. I would suggest to the would-be applicant that he do his own research, investigate UVa - if that's where he would like to attend law school - to the best of his ability, obtain excellent references (if possible), write a well-informed essay about why he would like to attend UVa Law, double- and triple-check the application, and send it in. Maybe he won't be accepted, or even wait-listed, but I wouldn't leave such an important decision to random people on the internet.

[Ramius]

I don't understand the people who are saying that he's got a 0% chance at being accepted to University of Virginia Law, especially with the statistics being quoted. Take kingjones59' response, for instance. He says "No shot, sorry". For one thing, who is this person to state that the would-be applicant has no shot? Can I see those tea leaves? His crystal ball? Other people are referencing the median scores at UVa, pointing out that 3.5/168 are in the 25th-percentile "area" - hence, the 0% chance of acceptance. If 3.5/168 were at zero-percentile (everyone currently enrolled at UVa had a GPA greater than 3.5 and everyone at UVa had an LSAT score higher than 168), I'd say his chances were slim, but even then there can be other factors which could make him a good candidate. I don't know the exact figures, but suppose that his scores are at [what is typically] the 25th percentile for an entering class. I know that GPA and LSAT are the two critical data points, but the 25th percentile equates to 3.5/168 being as high as or higher than 25% of the scores in the applicant pool. I would suggest to the would-be applicant that he do his own research, investigate UVa - if that's where he would like to attend law school - to the best of his ability, obtain excellent references (if possible), write a well-informed essay about why he would like to attend UVa Law, double- and triple-check the application, and send it in. Maybe he won't be accepted, or even wait-listed, but I wouldn't leave such an important decision to random people on the internet.

Wow, this is so full of extremely uninformed opinions.

Yes, he should absolutely apply to UVA, ED or RD, if he really wants a shot at going there, but based on data, he really has very little shot on this alone. Just look at mylsn and you'll see this.



Is it literally impossible he be admitted? No one can or should say that. But just looking at the numbers based on recent previous cycles, his chances are next to none.

To OP, give it a shot if that's what you really want. Only UVA can give you an answer about whether you can get in, but go in with eyes wide open and understand that your shot is pretty minimal.

[Lavitz]

I don't understand the people who are saying that he's got a 0% chance at being accepted to University of Virginia Law, especially with the statistics being quoted. Take kingjones59' response, for instance. He says "No shot, sorry". For one thing, who is this person to state that the would-be applicant has no shot? Can I see those tea leaves? His crystal ball? Other people are referencing the median scores at UVa, pointing out that 3.5/168 are in the 25th-percentile "area" - hence, the 0% chance of acceptance. If 3.5/168 were at zero-percentile (everyone currently enrolled at UVa had a GPA greater than 3.5 and everyone at UVa had an LSAT score higher than 168), I'd say his chances were slim, but even then there can be other factors which could make him a good candidate. I don't know the exact figures, but suppose that his scores are at [what is typically] the 25th percentile for an entering class. I know that GPA and LSAT are the two critical data points, but the 25th percentile equates to 3.5/168 being as high as or higher than 25% of the scores in the applicant pool. I would suggest to the would-be applicant that he do his own research, investigate UVa - if that's where he would like to attend law school - to the best of his ability, obtain excellent references (if possible), write a well-informed essay about why he would like to attend UVa Law, double- and triple-check the application, and send it in. Maybe he won't be accepted, or even wait-listed, but I wouldn't leave such an important decision to random people on the internet.

Medians are what schools care about--especially schools which care about their rankings as much as UVA does. You can be below one median and still have a good shot, because you're still helping one of the medians. Being below both, you're bringing down both medians, so you'd better have a very compelling reason for why they should admit you in spite of that. It usually involves being URM or having great softs, and since OP isn't URM and hasn't mentioned any amazing softs, the 0% prediction isn't far off. myLSN shows it:



Also, your advice is a year late. Please check dates before posting. Welcome to TLS.

[Ramius]

I don't understand the people who are saying that he's got a 0% chance at being accepted to University of Virginia Law, especially with the statistics being quoted. Take kingjones59' response, for instance. He says "No shot, sorry". For one thing, who is this person to state that the would-be applicant has no shot? Can I see those tea leaves? His crystal ball? Other people are referencing the median scores at UVa, pointing out that 3.5/168 are in the 25th-percentile "area" - hence, the 0% chance of acceptance. If 3.5/168 were at zero-percentile (everyone currently enrolled at UVa had a GPA greater than 3.5 and everyone at UVa had an LSAT score higher than 168), I'd say his chances were slim, but even then there can be other factors which could make him a good candidate. I don't know the exact figures, but suppose that his scores are at [what is typically] the 25th percentile for an entering class. I know that GPA and LSAT are the two critical data points, but the 25th percentile equates to 3.5/168 being as high as or higher than 25% of the scores in the applicant pool. I would suggest to the would-be applicant that he do his own research, investigate UVa - if that's where he would like to attend law school - to the best of his ability, obtain excellent references (if possible), write a well-informed essay about why he would like to attend UVa Law, double- and triple-check the application, and send it in. Maybe he won't be accepted, or even wait-listed, but I wouldn't leave such an important decision to random people on the internet.

Medians are what schools care about--especially schools which care about their rankings as much as UVA does. You can be below one median and still have a good shot, because you're still helping one of the medians. Being below both, you're bringing down both medians, so you'd better have a very compelling reason for why they should admit you in spite of that. It usually involves being URM or having great softs, and since OP isn't URM and hasn't mentioned any amazing softs, the 0% prediction isn't far off. myLSN shows it:



Also, your advice is a year late. Please check dates before posting. Welcome to TLS.

Wow, necro'ed and I didn't even realize it. Good catch, Lavitz.

[SoulSoldSeparately]

Also, your advice is a year late. Please check dates before posting. Welcome to TLS.

I didn't realize that there's a statute of limitations for when a post can be submitted. If I'm commenting on something that's outdated, perhaps the outdated post should be deleted or archived? Or perhaps some functionality can be built into the site to prevent comments after some designated amount of time has elapsed since the most recent post. Until then, if I see a button which allows comments, I may just go ahead and brazenly click on that button. Thanks for the welcome.

[muskies970]

Also, your advice is a year late. Please check dates before posting. Welcome to TLS.

I didn't realize that there's a statute of limitations for when a post can be submitted. If I'm commenting on something that's outdated, perhaps the outdated post should be deleted or archived? Or perhaps some functionality can be built into the site to prevent comments after some designated amount of time has elapsed since the most recent post. Until then, if I see a button which allows comments, I may just go ahead and brazenly click on that button. Thanks for the welcome.

You're going to fit in well here

[SoulSoldSeparately]

Also, your advice is a year late. Please check dates before posting. Welcome to TLS.

Also, please feel free to disregard (i.e. ignore) any advice which you deem obsolescent and/or not applicable to your life. I realize the need for an "advice police", but designating yourself as that arm of law [forum] enforcement might be a tad presumptuous.

[Ramius]

Also, your advice is a year late. Please check dates before posting. Welcome to TLS.

Also, please feel free to disregard (i.e. ignore) any advice which you deem obsolescent and/or not applicable to your life. I realize the need for an "advice police", but designating yourself as that arm of law [forum] enforcement might be a tad presumptuous.

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[Ti Malice]

Also, your advice is a year late. Please check dates before posting. Welcome to TLS.

Also, please feel free to disregard (i.e. ignore) any advice which you deem obsolescent and/or not applicable to your life. I realize the need for an "advice police", but designating yourself as that arm of law [forum] enforcement might be a tad presumptuous.

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