Re-take or Transfer? Forum

[stinkygpa]

- T-25 UG with a double major & a minor. 3.55 Cumulative

- June 2011 LSAT absent

- October 2011 LSAT cancelled

- June 2012 LSAT 164

These are the raw facts. When I PT'd before the June '12 LSAT, I was ranging between 164-173 with the average being about 168-169. 164 happened about three times out of some 25+ PT's that I took seriously. So when I went in, there was a chance of 164 happening almost as equally as a 173 but I really didn't think it would happen until it did.

Now I would really like to get into either: HYSCC, NYU, Berkeley or Penn. Call it a pride thing, and I believed that with relatively strong "softs" and a score of 170+ I had a shot at at least Penn. With a 164, I understand that my chances are virtually nonexistent.

At this point, should I re-take the LSAT or transfer after a year at a T-25 school? Since the 164 is the result of serious prepping (I now recognize almost all LSAT questions), there is a real chance that my score may not improve although I think I can do much better than a 164. Regardless, would transferring offer me a better shot?

Honest opinions please.

[fatduck]

this will end well

[North]

transfer after a year at a T-25 school?

No. 90%+ chance that this won't work out for you. Never go to a school you wouldn't be completely happy graduating from.

should I re-take the LSAT?

Yes, as many times as you have to. Especially given your goals.

HYS

Because of your GPA.

[kaiser]

And on what basis are you so sure that you will fall within the top 5-10% of your class at a T25, such that you will have the ability to transfer up? What special attribute do you have that 90% of your classmates wont?

[Nova]

At this point, should I re-take the LSAT or transfer after a year at a T-25 school?

LOL @ assuming T25 http://myLSN.info/dispresults.php?usege ... d=Included

You dont have a good shot at a single T25 with your current numbers. Retake is TCR

[stinkygpa]

LSN is an incredibly biased source.

[heeloftar]

LSN is an incredibly biased source.

Teehee... Somebody call FoxNews, we've got their next employee.

[stinkygpa]

The numbers are self-reported. The sampling bias is huge. I thought this was obvious to everyone.

[CanadianWolf]

A 3.55/164 should have a reasonable chance for admission to several top 25 law schools.

Emory, Wash & Lee, WashUStL, GWU & Minnesota are likely to admit one with OP's numbers. Alabama, Iowa, Indiana & Arizona State are top 30 law schools likely to admit OP, as well.

Transferring to a T-14 law school requires a top 15% class standing for the lower T-14.

[TMC116]

LSN is an incredibly biased source.

Why?

[North]

The numbers are self-reported. The sampling bias is huge. I thought this was obvious to everyone.

Okay, you can snag a few Midwest T25's. That still doesn't mean you can count on transferring to a school you'd like to graduate from. You can't.

[Nova]

A 3.55/164 should have a reasonable chance for admission to several top 25 law schools.

Emory, Wash & Lee, WashUStL, GWU & Minnesota are likely to admit one with OP's numbers.

I disagree. Both of OPs numbers are below both medians at every T25. Relocating to a random T30 is probably not a good idea. If he lands one in his preferred region for a reasonable price, great. But the odds are against it. OP, obviously you should retake the LSAT.

[CanadianWolf]

I agree OP should retake. Nevertheless, a 3.55/164 is a likely admit to these law schools. It should be even more likely next cycle as law school applications decrease further.

[TMC116]

The numbers are self-reported. The sampling bias is huge. I thought this was obvious to everyone.

Yeah but the trends are reliable indicators of performance. If you're below both 25 percentiles and not a URM you're definitely out. If you're below both medians, you're still in a world of trouble. Despite self selection, it is still a useful tool for gauging likely outcomes. Those are the facts

[CanadianWolf]

A lawschoolnumbers.com poster currently in undergraduate school with a 3.56/164 was waitlisted at Notre Dame, Emory, and Wash & Lee ( W&L typically is a safety for one with these numbers). This poster did get accepted at Wake Forest with $75,000 & at SMU with $78,000. Also, $90,000 offer from Richmond. With the upcoming decline in applications, next cycle should be more favorable to one with similiar numbers.

I agree that a retake is the best course of action for OP, but OP should have lots of reasonable options with the current 164/3.55.

P.S. With a 3.55 GPA & non-URM status, the Top 6 law schools & UC-Berkeley are not realistic goals regardless of LSAT score.

[stinkygpa]

Re-take seems to be the conclusion for my goals but wouldn't the fact that I was absent for one, cancelled one and scored badly on another hurt the idea that the LSAT is used to measure "raw intelligence" and in turn hurt my chances?

I understand that I'm facing very harsh chances and I never said I was sure or confident of anything so please don't make me sound like I did. I very much understand that there is no guarantee that I'll do significantly better on the next LSAT or that I will be on the top 15% of my class in some T-25 or 30 school. I just wanted to ask which option provided better chances of, say, getting into Penn Law, if any because I really want to and would like to choose an option that would provide better chances relatively.

[fatduck]

Re-take seems to be the conclusion for my goals but wouldn't the fact that I was absent for one, cancelled one and scored badly on another hurt the idea that the LSAT is used to measure "raw intelligence" and in turn hurt my chances?

LSAT being used to "measure raw intelligence" is a huge flame so retake as many times as you can

i dunno, when i see "absent" i think "lol thats dumb"

[CanadianWolf]

In order to have a reasonable chance for Penn, you need to score above 170 on the LSAT. The absent, cancelled & 164 should not harm your chances if you score higher on a retake.

[Nova]

Re-take seems to be the conclusion for my goals but wouldn't the fact that I was absent for one, cancelled one and scored badly on another hurt the idea that the LSAT is used to measure "raw intelligence" and in turn hurt my chances?

Not really. I would rather have absent-cancelled-164-167 than just a 166 at any school where the median is 167.

Look at UMNs LSAT trend this year, http://minnesota.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats . If you dont have at least a 167, you had better have a 3.8 . Its a wall of death because they care about their median so much. They dont care how many times you took it, they just care that they can report 167 to USNWR.

[CanadianWolf]

My understanding is that Minnesota's yield is terrible this cycle. Look for lower standards next cycle. Emory & GWU also had poor cycles with respect to yield.

[Nova]

My understanding is that Minnesota's yield is terrible this cycle. Look for lower standards next cycle. Emory & GWU also had poor cycles with respect to yield.

Yeah true. At UMN, at least, I think it will probably be a combination of slightly relaxed standards and a smaller class size. At ASW, the reps were going on about how the class size of the c/o 2015 would be reduced (maybe even down to about 200 students instead of 250).