3.23/172 Non URM with 2yrs WE Forum

[ThreeStrikes]

Good afternoon guys! So after my June LSAT I've finally decided to sign up and ask for some of the great TLS wisdom

I've taken the LSAT three times going 151, 161, and 172 in that order. I am non-URM and I have 2 years work experience. I've scoured LSN and figured I'd ask your guys' advice to help solidify my strategy to applying this cycle. NYU would be my number one choice but I've read that they average and I doubt my GPA is doing me any favors there

What schools do you all think I'd have the best shot at snagging an acceptance at? I'm interested in Penn and Northwestern as well. Being from the Philadelphia area, I love the city and have the goal of working in NYC after school. Of course, NYU would be my best shot but do I even stand a chance of getting in??

What about Fordham and Cardozo? I think I could get a full tuition scholarship at Dozo.

If you guys could just give me some advice and my chances in the T14, I would really appreciate it! Thanks in advance

[Yukos]

Hard to say because there aren't a lot of splitters as extreme as you. I'd say near-lock for GULC, very good shot at NU, decent shot at MVP. Worth an app to CCN but out at HYSB. I think people's general advice will be to blanket the non-HYSB T14 and a couple lower schools you like like Fordham, Vandy (not near Northeast but decent shot at NY from there), maybe Dozo.

Good luck, your cycle will be unpredictable but probably end well

Source: http://myLSN.info/dispresults.php?usege ... d=Excluded

[JamMasterJ]

ED Penn or NYU. You should be fine at CNG reg decision

[Grazzhoppa]

Penn- probably in with ED
Virginia- In with ED
NU- In? I think, especially with the WE. Same with Cornell, Gtown

Honestly I don't think you are that extreme of a splitter. I feel like I see people with your numbers on the reg doin well in the bottom half of the T14.

[ThreeStrikes]

Wow this is some good news! Still kind of shocked with how my list went from TTTT/TTT's to T14 - actually in disbelief, but it's a good thing!

So my retakes won't hurt me too much at NYU with an ED? I know I won't be able to ED anywhere else if I use it at NYU but it really would be my dream school and if it gives me a shot I would love to do it there.

How likely would it be to land a NYC gig from NU? Not sure how if Chicago would be in my long-term plans career wise but who knows, I've never been.

Thanks for the info

[CanadianWolf]

To what do you attribute the dramatic rise in your LSAT scores ?

P.S. Take it again & you should score 184 if the pattern continues.

P.P.S. Also, you might make a great LSAT instructor in light of your ability to learn the test.

[ImTheWiz]

I know I won't be able to ED anywhere else if I use it at NYU

Why is that?

[ThreeStrikes]

To what do you attribute the dramatic rise in your LSAT scores ?

Well the 151 was during my senior year in UG. Needless to say, I didn't prep at all. Maybe a couple PT's, but nothing serious.

Then after my application cycle yielded me nothing but TTT/TTTT's at sticker other than a 10k scholarship at Florida Coastal (which sadly, I was originally excited about), I found TLS and really started doing my homework. I prepped for about 8 weeks doing Velocity last fall and really made some strong strides bumping it up to 161. I thought about retaking December but really was just tired out and wanted to let my cycle play out since I got my apps in right at the end of October.

After this cycle, I really felt I owed it to myself to give the LSAT a third and final crack. I prepped with pithypike's guide along with Velocity for some supplemental work. My games were always a solid -0/-1 after my first go around with velocity so it was really time to buckle down on LR and my biggest weakness RC. RC just began to click after doing so many passages, the formatting of the passages and where they seemed to pick questions from really started to stand out. Same deal with LR. Drilling and drilling some more really helped me make my LR more consistent.

[ThreeStrikes]

I know I won't be able to ED anywhere else if I use it at NYU

Why is that?

I really don't think I could commit 100% to any other school outside of NYU. Maybe Penn, maybe. But I've been in Philly for so long and NYC is the ultimate goal. I know Penn places very well in NYC but NYU would really be my choice between the two - but I know, I probably won't have that choice.

Most of my friends have moved from Philadelphia to NYC as well as family - making NYC an even more desirable spot.

[emkay625]

I have nearly identical numbers - 3.23/173, 4 years WE, non URM, applied in October. This is how my cycle turned out:

HYS + Chicago + Berkeley - didn't apply
NYU - waitlisted
Columbia - rejected
Penn - waitlisted
Michigan - waitlisted
Duke - waitlisted
UVA - waitlisted (then almost accepted, PM me for details)
Cornell - waitlisted
Northwestern - accepted, $60K
Georgetown - accepted
Vanderbilt - accepted, $60K
Texas - waitlisted then accepted, $27K + in-state tuition (attending)
WUSTL - accepted, $84K
GW - accepted, $90K
William and Mary - accepted, $42K
Emory - accepted, $60K
Indiana - accepted, $30K
SMU - accepted, $75K
Tulane - accepted, $75K
Alabama - accepted, $75K
UH - accepted, $45K

as far as the top 14 goes, be prepared to ride a lot of waitlists. The only waitlist I tried to get off of was Texas, and I got off of it very quickly (in February). Based upon how others have done this cycle, I feel like I could've gotten off a few more (UVA for sure, Penn, maybe Mich) if I had tried/written LOCIs etc.

Let me know if you have questions.

[Colonel Angus]

Hey numbers twin, I'm a 172 3.2 also with a couple years of we. We should follow each others cycles. I have a pretty similar strategy, but probably wont waste the app on nyu. If I had a couple more points on lsat maybe, but its not a school that interests me much as far as fit and employment prospects. Penn and nu are my first choices, but will be happy with any t14.

[ThreeStrikes]

I have nearly identical numbers - 3.23/173, 4 years WE, non URM, applied in October. This is how my cycle turned out:

HYS + Chicago + Berkeley - didn't apply
NYU - waitlisted
Columbia - rejected
Penn - waitlisted
Michigan - waitlisted
Duke - waitlisted
UVA - waitlisted (then almost accepted, PM me for details)
Cornell - waitlisted
Northwestern - accepted, $60K
Georgetown - accepted
Vanderbilt - accepted, $60K
Texas - waitlisted then accepted, $27K + in-state tuition (attending)
WUSTL - accepted, $84K
GW - accepted, $90K
William and Mary - accepted, $42K
Emory - accepted, $60K
Indiana - accepted, $30K
SMU - accepted, $75K
Tulane - accepted, $75K
Alabama - accepted, $75K
UH - accepted, $45K

as far as the top 14 goes, be prepared to ride a lot of waitlists. The only waitlist I tried to get off of was Texas, and I got off of it very quickly (in February). Based upon how others have done this cycle, I feel like I could've gotten off a few more (UVA for sure, Penn, maybe Mich) if I had tried/written LOCIs etc.

Let me know if you have questions.

This is definitely helpful! Yeah, I can definitely see multiple waitlists on the horizon. Did you use an ED anywhere?

And @Colonel Angus, I look forward to riding this cycle out with you!

[emkay625]

This is definitely helpful! Yeah, I can definitely see multiple waitlists on the horizon. Did you use an ED anywhere?

And @Colonel Angus, I look forward to riding this cycle out with you!

I did! I ED'd NU but it was a bad decision due to the full-ride scholarships they give out. (I got held from ed and then admitted rd). If I were you, I'd use it on one of MVP.

[shifty_eyed]

You are pretty much me. I think NYU is out even with ED. UVA seems more likely than Penn, but you can always ED UVA after trying Penn.

emkay's results give me lots of hope

[ThreeStrikes]

You are pretty much me. I think NYU is out even with ED. UVA seems more likely than Penn, but you can always ED UVA after trying Penn.

emkay's results give me lots of hope

I agree. I don't see NYU being a likely outcome. A very low chance. I guess I'll have to really think about where to ED, if anywhere.

[shifty_eyed]

You are pretty much me. I think NYU is out even with ED. UVA seems more likely than Penn, but you can always ED UVA after trying Penn.

emkay's results give me lots of hope

I agree. I don't see NYU being a likely outcome. A very low chance. I guess I'll have to really think about where to ED, if anywhere.

Maybe when the numbers for June LSAT takers come in we will have a better idea if law school applications are going to continue to decrease, and if so, splitters might not need to ED.

[JCFindley]

Forget Dozo and a full ride. Not that you won't get one, but you will be MUCH better off elsewhere even paying a little.

You WILL get some good choices to choose from.

Good luck and enjoy.

[Ramsey]

Congrats on your score!

Having that said, I think 151-161-172 track may hurt you against those with less extreme score improvement... My friend had 3.60 from Ivy/157-163-170/MA from top school and rich international experiences. She ED'ed to Georgetown but waitlisted. She didnt get into any T-25 (applied all early in the cycle) and she's now attending a school in T30-T35 (wait listed, then admitted).

You may be not as unlucky as she, but just make sure that you apply to a wide range of schools. I won't be surprised to see you admitted to mid T-14, but if i were you, i won't save on application fees and cast a wide wide net up to T-35.

An addendum explaining your dramatic score rise might help.

[shifty_eyed]

Congrats on your score!

Having that said, I think 151-161-172 track may hurt you against those with less extreme score improvement... My friend had 3.60 from Ivy/157-163-170/MA from top school and rich international experiences. She ED'ed to Georgetown but waitlisted. She didnt get into any T-25 (applied all early in the cycle) and she's now attending a school in T30-T35 (wait listed, then admitted).

You may be not as unlucky as she, but just make sure that you apply to a wide range of schools. I won't be surprised to see you admitted to mid T-14, but if i were you, i won't save on application fees and cast a wide wide net up to T-35.

An addendum explaining your dramatic score rise might help.

I SUSPECT there must have been something else off on her application. It doesn't make sense otherwise. I don't see why law schools would look at a 151-161-172 any differently than a 165-172.

[Colonel Angus]

You are pretty much me. I think NYU is out even with ED. UVA seems more likely than Penn, but you can always ED UVA after trying Penn.

emkay's results give me lots of hope

I agree. I don't see NYU being a likely outcome. A very low chance. I guess I'll have to really think about where to ED, if anywhere.

Maybe when the numbers for June LSAT takers come in we will have a better idea if law school applications are going to continue to decrease, and if so, splitters might not need to ED.

Idk if i'd go that far, I was planning on the penn then uva ed. may as well do this, not expecting money from either.

[2014]

Congrats on your score!

Having that said, I think 151-161-172 track may hurt you against those with less extreme score improvement... My friend had 3.60 from Ivy/157-163-170/MA from top school and rich international experiences. She ED'ed to Georgetown but waitlisted. She didnt get into any T-25 (applied all early in the cycle) and she's now attending a school in T30-T35 (wait listed, then admitted).

You may be not as unlucky as she, but just make sure that you apply to a wide range of schools. I won't be surprised to see you admitted to mid T-14, but if i were you, i won't save on application fees and cast a wide wide net up to T-35.

An addendum explaining your dramatic score rise might help.

Those are autoadmit numbers for basically all of 19-25 so your friend clearly has something else wrong with their app or your definition of T25 is not actually the Top 25 on USNWR.

[NJPitcher]

I'll chime in as a 3.18/173 (no retakes).

You'll ride a lot of WL in the T14, and you'll get $$ at UCLA/Vandy on down. I'd be shocked if you wind up with any money at the 14s, but outside they'll want your LSAT and odds are you'll get money. Here's my LSN if you want my whole cycle: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/njpitcher

I wrote no LOCIs and made no real attempts to get off waitlists, but both NYU and Penn let me in off of WL. I tend to think NYU is an easier shot since they have a larger class and a higher acceptance %, so as long as you hit their numbers you have a shot - just be prepared to pay sticker. I'm not sure how I feel about the ED giving you an advantage at any of these places though, as I tend to think that in their eyes they're already reaches for you, so odds are you'll accept if admitted (in other words the ED doesn't tell them much they don't already know).

If you really want NYC then I'd prob apply NYU/NU/Cornell/Fordham, and pepper any other apps you think might give you some bargaining power. You'll also get some fee waivers with your LSAT, so take advantage of those.

[NJPitcher]

Congrats on your score!

Having that said, I think 151-161-172 track may hurt you against those with less extreme score improvement... My friend had 3.60 from Ivy/157-163-170/MA from top school and rich international experiences. She ED'ed to Georgetown but waitlisted. She didnt get into any T-25 (applied all early in the cycle) and she's now attending a school in T30-T35 (wait listed, then admitted).

You may be not as unlucky as she, but just make sure that you apply to a wide range of schools. I won't be surprised to see you admitted to mid T-14, but if i were you, i won't save on application fees and cast a wide wide net up to T-35.

An addendum explaining your dramatic score rise might help.

Those are autoadmit numbers for basically all of 19-25 so your friend clearly has something else wrong with their app or your definition of T25 is not actually the Top 25 on USNWR.

Or that 170 doesn't really exist, and she's saving face by saying the third time was a charm. a 3.6/170 doesn't strike out in the T-30.

[ThreeStrikes]

I'll chime in as a 3.18/173 (no retakes).

You'll ride a lot of WL in the T14, and you'll get $$ at UCLA/Vandy on down. I'd be shocked if you wind up with any money at the 14s, but outside they'll want your LSAT and odds are you'll get money. Here's my LSN if you want my whole cycle: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/njpitcher

I wrote no LOCIs and made no real attempts to get off waitlists, but both NYU and Penn let me in off of WL. I tend to think NYU is an easier shot since they have a larger class and a higher acceptance %, so as long as you hit their numbers you have a shot - just be prepared to pay sticker. I'm not sure how I feel about the ED giving you an advantage at any of these places though, as I tend to think that in their eyes they're already reaches for you, so odds are you'll accept if admitted (in other words the ED doesn't tell them much they don't already know).

If you really want NYC then I'd prob apply NYU/NU/Cornell/Fordham, and pepper any other apps you think might give you some bargaining power. You'll also get some fee waivers with your LSAT, so take advantage of those.

Thanks for the advice! It sounds as if I will have an exciting cycle

PS- Is it possible to ED at NYU and then ED elsewhere? Or is the timing not compatible.

[ImTheWiz]

I'll chime in as a 3.18/173 (no retakes).

You'll ride a lot of WL in the T14, and you'll get $$ at UCLA/Vandy on down. I'd be shocked if you wind up with any money at the 14s, but outside they'll want your LSAT and odds are you'll get money. Here's my LSN if you want my whole cycle: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/njpitcher

I wrote no LOCIs and made no real attempts to get off waitlists, but both NYU and Penn let me in off of WL. I tend to think NYU is an easier shot since they have a larger class and a higher acceptance %, so as long as you hit their numbers you have a shot - just be prepared to pay sticker. I'm not sure how I feel about the ED giving you an advantage at any of these places though, as I tend to think that in their eyes they're already reaches for you, so odds are you'll accept if admitted (in other words the ED doesn't tell them much they don't already know).

If you really want NYC then I'd prob apply NYU/NU/Cornell/Fordham, and pepper any other apps you think might give you some bargaining power. You'll also get some fee waivers with your LSAT, so take advantage of those.

Not to hijack, but I'm in a very similar situation as the OP (sans WE, though). NJPitcher, your results are very encouraging, particularly the fact that you got to NYU and Penn RD, but the bolded portion above seems to go against the majority of wisdom I have heard on this board. Your logic sounds solid though. Can anyone expand on this?