2.0/172 Forum

[eggshell03]

Thank you everyone for your inputs.

I will try to email or talk to the dean and see if it would be possible for him to do anything about the NPs. I doubt it will work but it is worth a try.

[Repartee16]

I'll hopefully be sitting in the same boat as you. My GPA is 2.2 in engineering and I'm hoping for a strong showing come test day...or days.

From the research that I've done so far, any decent school in Cali is automatically out as previous posters have mentioned. For extreme splitters, the best schools that you'll have a decent shot at are: (decreasing in rank, sort of)

Minnesota
UIUC
WUSTL
George Washington
Alabama (undergrad at Auburn, thought it'd stick this in here)
SMU
UGA
American
etc.
Most of these schools, if applied early enough will also give you a small scholarship. With the way things have occurred lately, you might be inclined to wait a year and apply early to maximize scholarships.
You have to give up the idea of living in California for law school, unless you want to go to a low T1 or high T2 Californian school. With your high LSAT, it would be in your best interest to maximize the school you go to. I'm not sure about getting to California from these midwest-ish schools, but as far as having a decent shot at employment, these are probably your best bets.

[Repartee16]

I should add that you should do some research and think of another place you wouldn't mind spending law school and a few years after that for employment. Many people rag on the South, but it's pretty pleasant and the people are friendly...although still a little racist. And by little, I mean fairly. And by fairly, I mean really racist.

For next cycle:

Alabama would most likely give you a full ride. George Washington, with its recent activity, you're probably looking at a 75k scholarship. WuSTL seems to be a little stingy to splitters, usually offering about 30k and something 60k to splitters. SMU is fairly generous, usually giving about 65k-75k tuition to high lsats. I think their tuition is about 40k a year.

Hopefully this helps you see the bright side to things. Find a good splitter friendly school and try your best to maximize your job opportunities. Once you put in some time, getting back to California would be a little more feasible, but still hard.

[eggshell03]

I should add that you should do some research and think of another place you wouldn't mind spending law school and a few years after that for employment. Many people rag on the South, but it's pretty pleasant and the people are friendly...although still a little racist. And by little, I mean fairly. And by fairly, I mean really racist.

For next cycle:

Alabama would most likely give you a full ride. George Washington, with its recent activity, you're probably looking at a 75k scholarship. WuSTL seems to be a little stingy to splitters, usually offering about 30k and something 60k to splitters. SMU is fairly generous, usually giving about 65k-75k tuition to high lsats. I think their tuition is about 40k a year.

Hopefully this helps you see the bright side to things. Find a good splitter friendly school and try your best to maximize your job opportunities. Once you put in some time, getting back to California would be a little more feasible, but still hard.

I am an Asian male..how much of a problem would that be?

[Hjones33]

Here is an applicant like you.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/rpm


Have a tiny bit better gpa and one better LSAT and got WL at Univ San Francisco. So I don't know why people are telling you you could get money at WUSTL. This candidate got WL there.

[Wily]

I had mostly similar stats to yours. You might want to check out my cycle for a preview of what you're looking at:

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Wily

[Repartee16]

haha, I was being a little sarcastic about the racism in the South. I'm full Korean, and lived in Alabama for 10 years. There were a few times where racism was directed towards me, but I didn't really care too much. Most of my friends are white.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/schizoresume/jd

Here's a candidate that got 30k to WUSTL. Their 75th percentile is at 169 I believe. If you have a 169+, you have a decent shot at getting accepted and with some money. I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but generally speaking, WuSTL is one of the few t30 schools that give partial scholarships to splitters. If you go back a year on LSN you'll see a lot more.

[09042014]

I think your biggest problem is these bad grades are super recent. If you work in a real job for 2-3 years you might make a case that you grew up, or if your parents are loaded pay for a fancy private school MA degree and 4.0 it.

Honestly, you shouldn't go get yourself into a bunch of debt with the school track record you have. You need to prove to the world and yourself that you are worth taking a risk .


/ yes this is DF giving holistic admissions advice.

[Repartee16]

Here is an applicant like you.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/rpm


Have a tiny bit better gpa and one better LSAT and got WL at Univ San Francisco. So I don't know why people are telling you you could get money at WUSTL. This candidate got WL there.

Splitter cycles are weird bro, if you check LSN you'll see people getting waitlisted at TTTs and money at T25s sometimes.

Yeah, for a lot of those TTTs your LSAT might as well be on the moon since it's so much higher and they can't afford to take a hit on their GPA. Cross your fingers and hope for the best. this upcoming cycle is going to be fun

[Nova]

I should add that you should do some research and think of another place you wouldn't mind spending law school and a few years after that for employment. Many people rag on the South, but it's pretty pleasant and the people are friendly...although still a little racist. And by little, I mean fairly. And by fairly, I mean really racist.

I am an Asian male..how much of a problem would that be?

It wouldn't be a problem here in Texas. Our big cities are very inclusive. There is racism (ignorance) everywhere, but going to a big city will mitigate that.

[SaintsTheMetal]

Apply across the board to T1 and T2 and you will hit a lot more than you will miss. Midwest T30 splitter friendly schools like WUSTL and UMN are good bets.

For T14, Throw apps to atleast UVA and Gtown. If you are Cali or bust, then UCLA and USC are possible but not likely. UCD/I/H are probably the most reasonable possibilities for your situation.

Have your current boss write you a reference. LORs wont make or break you, so dont worry too much.

This guy is absolutely clueless. UVA?? UCLA/USC??? No chance in hell.. CA is not like other states; admissions are much tougher for similarly ranked schools, at basically every level.. i.e. the UCs VS other T30-40 schools. Hate to break it to you, but with a 2.0 you are totally locked out of the UC system.

Unfortunately, most people in this thread are right, you are probably locked out California other than the TTTTs, but I do think you could probably snag a Tier 2 school in the Midwest or East somewhere, in an oversaturated market like NY (and have mediocre employment prospects with a lot of debt.)

Look at this guy (who did have a bit better numbers): http://lawschoolnumbers.com/rpm/jd
He got UOP and SCU of the Waitlist... are these schools worth 200k Debt though... that's up to how much of a life-long dream it is to be a lawyer it is for you; most people would say no.

Also a retake really wouldn't help that much.. You will be below GPA25 and above LSAT75 anywhere you can apply.

Check out Hofstra if you are willing to live in NY.. bottom of T2 but you could potentially get $ from them

[Icculus]

I think your biggest problem is these bad grades are super recent. If you work in a real job for 2-3 years you might make a case that you grew up, or if your parents are loaded pay for a fancy private school MA degree and 4.0 it.

Honestly, you shouldn't go get yourself into a bunch of debt with the school track record you have. You need to prove to the world and yourself that you are worth taking a risk .


/ yes this is DF giving holistic admissions advice.

+1, I know of a few people in my class who had a GPA in the 2.2-2.4 range and managed to get in at NU and at WUSTL, but none of them came straight from undergrad, they all had at least 2-3 years WE. Though with the new dean know idea if this will continue in the coming years, but everyone I know who applied to WUSTL with a 168+ LSAT got in. I'll also say as one with a shit undergrad GPA a few years in the work force and real world helped my get by shit together, so did getting a MA. Don't head to law school until you're sure you ready and able to handle the workload and stress.

[Nova]

Apply across the board to T1 and T2 and you will hit a lot more than you will miss. Midwest T30 splitter friendly schools like WUSTL and UMN are good bets.

For T14, Throw apps to atleast UVA and Gtown. If you are Cali or bust, then UCLA and USC are possible but not likely. UCD/I/H are probably the most reasonable possibilities for your situation.

Have your current boss write you a reference. LORs wont make or break you, so dont worry too much.

This guy is absolutely clueless. UVA?? UCLA/USC??? No chance in hell.. CA is not like other states; admissions are much tougher for similarly ranked schools, at basically every level.. i.e. the UCs VS other T30-40 schools. Hate to break it to you, but with a 2.0 you are totally locked out of the UC system.

Unfortunately, most people in this thread are right, you are probably locked out California other than the TTTTs, but I do think you could probably snag a Tier 2 school in the Midwest or East somewhere, in an oversaturated market like NY (and have mediocre employment prospects with a lot of debt.)

Look at this guy (who did have a bit better numbers): http://lawschoolnumbers.com/rpm/jd
He got UOP and SCU of the Waitlist... are these schools worth 200k Debt though... that's up to how much of a life-long dream it is to be a lawyer it is for you; most people would say no.

Also a retake really wouldn't help that much.. You will be below GPA25 and above LSAT75 anywhere you can apply.

Check out Hofstra if you are willing to live in NY.. bottom of T2 but you could potentially get $ from them

Did you not read where I said I was used overly optimistic language?! Do you not understand what POSSIBLE means? You are the one bringing poor logic to the conversation with your end all be all word choice.

NEWSFLASH: Schools take splitters all the time. If OPs app doesnt suck, he will get into several T1 schools.

For extreme splitters, the best schools that you'll have a decent shot at are: (decreasing in rank, sort of)

Minnesota
UIUC
WUSTL
George Washington
Alabama (undergrad at Auburn, thought it'd stick this in here)
SMU
UGA
American
etc.
Most of these schools, if applied early enough will also give you a small scholarship. With the way things have occurred lately, you might be inclined to wait a year and apply early to maximize scholarships.

[Repartee16]

Apply across the board to T1 and T2 and you will hit a lot more than you will miss. Midwest T30 splitter friendly schools like WUSTL and UMN are good bets.

For T14, Throw apps to atleast UVA and Gtown. If you are Cali or bust, then UCLA and USC are possible but not likely. UCD/I/H are probably the most reasonable possibilities for your situation.

Have your current boss write you a reference. LORs wont make or break you, so dont worry too much.

This guy is absolutely clueless. UVA?? UCLA/USC??? No chance in hell.. CA is not like other states; admissions are much tougher for similarly ranked schools, at basically every level.. i.e. the UCs VS other T30-40 schools. Hate to break it to you, but with a 2.0 you are totally locked out of the UC system.

Unfortunately, most people in this thread are right, you are probably locked out California other than the TTTTs, but I do think you could probably snag a Tier 2 school in the Midwest or East somewhere, in an oversaturated market like NY (and have mediocre employment prospects with a lot of debt.)

Look at this guy (who did have a bit better numbers): http://lawschoolnumbers.com/rpm/jd
He got UOP and SCU of the Waitlist... are these schools worth 200k Debt though... that's up to how much of a life-long dream it is to be a lawyer it is for you; most people would say no.

Also a retake really wouldn't help that much.. You will be below GPA25 and above LSAT75 anywhere you can apply.

Check out Hofstra if you are willing to live in NY.. bottom of T2 but you could potentially get $ from them

Did you not read where I said I was used overly optimistic language?! Do you not understand what POSSIBLE means? You are the one bringing poor logic to the conversation with your end all be all word choice.

NEWSFLASH: Schools take splitters all the time. If OPs app doesnt suck, he will get into several T1 schools.

For extreme splitters, the best schools that you'll have a decent shot at are: (decreasing in rank, sort of)

Minnesota
UIUC
WUSTL
George Washington
Alabama (undergrad at Auburn, thought it'd stick this in here)
SMU
UGA
American
etc.
Most of these schools, if applied early enough will also give you a small scholarship. With the way things have occurred lately, you might be inclined to wait a year and apply early to maximize scholarships.

When I first had aims towards law school, I used LSP with my 2.2 UGPA and thought I had to make a 180 to get into a T2. LSN is a far better source of information as LSP isn't accurate for splitters. Splitter cycles are unpredictable in general, but do have some patterns. There's a bigger list I've made that goes down into T2, but OP would be best served aiming at those schools and if he has 2 years of work experience, Northwestern.

[SaintsTheMetal]

Did you not read where I said I was used overly optimistic language?! Do you not understand what POSSIBLE means? You are the one bringing poor logic to the conversation with your end all be all word choice.

NEWSFLASH: Schools take splitters all the time. If OPs app doesnt suck, he will get into several T1 schools.

LSN.. zero chance at those schools you mentioned I think its important to be realistic. other schools towards the bottom of the top100 sure, hence why I mention hes probably in at hofstra with $

[Repartee16]

Did you not read where I said I was used overly optimistic language?! Do you not understand what POSSIBLE means? You are the one bringing poor logic to the conversation with your end all be all word choice.

NEWSFLASH: Schools take splitters all the time. If OPs app doesnt suck, he will get into several T1 schools.

LSN.. zero chance at those schools you mentioned I think its important to be realistic. other schools towards the bottom of the top100 sure, hence why I mention hes probably in at hofstra with $

Once you're below the 25th percentile in GPA it doesn't really matter that much about how far down. A 2.0 and a 2.5 with the same LSAT will have similar cycles if applied to at the same time. Those schools that I mentioned all accept <27 gpas

[SaintsTheMetal]

Once you're below the 25th percentile in GPA it doesn't really matter that much about how far down. A 2.0 and a 2.5 with the same LSAT will have similar cycles if applied to at the same time. Those schools that I mentioned all accept <27 gpas

I agree for the most part.. I was responding to the guy that was suggesting UVA, UCD,UCH, USC, UCLA.. waste of $400+ in app fees. Hell a 3.0/172 is still probably locked out of USC/UCLA

Still, data is very thin for applicants like OP, http://lawschoolnumbers.com/rpm is the only applicant with a <2.2 and 170+ on LSN. Although his numbers are a bit better, he is also from Cali; I'd say his cycle would be indicative of OP's

I'd question going to a school like Minnesota at sticker, probably off the WL if at all, without ties and being from Cali, this transition is something to really think about, and would probably want to ask local Minn. firms if he would even have a shot at getting hired w/o ties

[Nova]

I'd question going to a school like Minnesota at sticker, probably off the WL if at all, without ties and being from Cali, this transition is something to really think about, and would probably want to ask local Minn. firms if he would even have a shot at getting hired w/o ties

As far as app fees, OP will get fee waivers from all over the country from T1 and TT schools. Applying to reach schools is not a bad idea.

One LSN account means very little and it is impossible to make any general conclusion based on it.

It is not unusual to go OOS to a good law school. 72% of UMN's class of 2014 are from OOS .... UMN goes outside the state to acquire national talent... Im sure local firms appreciate that.

[Repartee16]

Yeah, but that's also a problem with Minnesota. If you aren't able to get any summer work then you're graduating in a place where most people leave, that's a bit scary. The unofficial gpa floors at UVA and places like Cornell are around 2.8 but that's with amazing softs. When you're at a 2.0-2.5 You've really limited your best shot to Northwestern with work experience. I mean, if you have the money, you can get a nice collection of rejection letters. Granted these upcoming cycles aren't going to be the same as the past few, but hey, it's your money.

On a side note, I wish I had a 172

[SaintsTheMetal]

1
It is not unusual to go OOS to a good law school. 72% of UMN's class of 2014 are from OOS .... UMN goes outside the state to acquire national talent... Im sure local firms appreciate that.

While neither you nor I are qualified to say for certain as 0Ls, you are in a slim minority with that opinion on this board then that would advocate a random midwestern school without ties.

Around here people tend to be of the opinion basically every firm outside of NYC/DC/LA wants to see demonstrable ties to break into a firm. Add that into these schools' BigLaw placement (you will be going at sticker,) and I would be very, very cautious of going to a school outside of those markets without any ties. If you are one of the 40% or so that graduates without a job, your degree probably won't hold water back in Cali, or anywhere else other than that midwestern school's market. Something worth thinking about at least.

[Nova]

1
It is not unusual to go OOS to a good law school. 72% of UMN's class of 2014 are from OOS .... UMN goes outside the state to acquire national talent... Im sure local firms appreciate that.

While neither you nor I are qualified to say for certain as 0Ls, you are in a slim minority with that opinion on this board then that would advocate a random midwestern school without ties.

Around here people tend to be of the opinion basically every firm outside of NYC/DC/LA wants to see demonstrable ties to break into a firm. Add that into these schools' BigLaw placement (you will be going at sticker,) and I would be very, very cautious of going to a school outside of those markets without any ties. If you are one of the 40% or so that graduates without a job, your degree probably won't hold water back in Cali, or anywhere else other than that midwestern school's market. Something worth thinking about at least.

Here are real numbers for UMN c/o 2010: 72% of class working FT JD required positions 9 months aftr graduation. 81% working positions that are either JD required or preferred. >90% employed.

I know its hard to believe, but splitters with shit GPAs do get substancial schollys from T1s. Anecdotally, I got a generous scholly from a T30 with a <3.0 and a median LSAT. I applied late and am not special. I guess my own circumstance makes me optimistic for other splitters, such as the OP.

[Repartee16]

Lots of good information. As a future splitter, do you normally 9/10 times have to be over the 75% LSAT percentile if you're under the 25% percentile for UGPA? Or do you have a slim chance having it abovve or at the 75% percentile?

[sundance95]

Lots of good information. As a future splitter, do you normally 9/10 times have to be over the 75% LSAT percentile if you're under the 25% percentile for UGPA? Or do you have a slim chance having it abovve or at the 75% percentile?

Median's the key-that's what USNWR bases the rankings on. Your cycle will depend on what school need's one more above-median LSAT to move their LSAT median up one point. That's why extreme splitter cycles seems so random year to year.

[Repartee16]

Ah. I tried looking it up and all the information I came up with kept emphasizing the 25th and 75th percentiles for GPA and LSAT. On the rankings site, they usually just list those so I was confused. Is there a good website to view the medians of each school? Some schools seem to have a pretty even distribution while others have their medians just one or two points below their 75th.

Thanks!

[eggshell03]

Thanks everyone.

I think what I am going to do is apply to around 20 schools ranging from WUSTL to bottom of tier 2s.

If I ding(or get no amount of scholarship), I will try again next year.

I am pretty set on becoming a PD so if I can't come back to California for a while(as in 7-8 years after graduation) it is all right for me.

I hope midwest is not TOO COLD or super humid...I am going to miss CA weather :[