2.0/172 Forum

[eggshell03]

Hey guys!

I graduated from UG last year with pitiful 2.0 LSAC gpa. I failed almost every single class my first two years of college and I did not know

not passing "Pass or No Pass" classes counted as a F...I think I have about five of those.

After graduating, I was fortunate enough to get a full time job as a file organizer/secretary at my acquaintance's medical office.

While working, I studied my ass off for about a year and got 172 on LSAT.

Another thing to note is that I have only one academic LOR from undergrad written by a TA, but I assume it is not that great considering my grade in the class was only a B.

My question is, is there any T1/T2 school that would accept me? I am from California and would like to stay here, but I understand that most CA schools are out of my reach.

Also, what should I do about LOR situation? I am not sure if any professor from UG would remember me or even recommend me due to my lackluster performance.

Thank you so much for reading guys and I look forward to your inputs!

[catholicgirl]

Congratulations on your LSAT score.

You're going to have to rely on a combination of factors, including luck. You might also want to consider retaking. 172 is fantastic, but with your GPA if you can even get a few more points it could help you.

I would make sure you write one hell of an addendum to explain your grades. Have multiple people look at it. Beyond that, I'm sure other people here will have more specific advice.

[eggshell03]

Congratulations on your LSAT score.

You're going to have to rely on a combination of factors, including luck. You might also want to consider retaking. 172 is fantastic, but with your GPA if you can even get a few more points it could help you.

I would make sure you write one hell of an addendum to explain your grades. Have multiple people look at it. Beyond that, I'm sure other people here will have more specific advice.

Thank you for your swift response.

For the addendum, what do people actually write about? I really have no other explanations other than the fact that I just had horrible work ethics and never went to classes.

As far as LSAT goes, I will think about that advice and possibly take summer off to study for October LSAT.

[catholicgirl]

I'm just going off other things I've read on this site, I didn't need to write one. Obviously, you don't have a "my mother died freshmen year and it fucked me up excuse." Yours was more maturity related. I would honestly forum search and find some similar scenarios. You could say that your grades aren't reflective of your current maturity as much as your LSAT score. Show that you committed to studying that and did very well and that will extend into law school.

Congratulations on your LSAT score.

You're going to have to rely on a combination of factors, including luck. You might also want to consider retaking. 172 is fantastic, but with your GPA if you can even get a few more points it could help you.

I would make sure you write one hell of an addendum to explain your grades. Have multiple people look at it. Beyond that, I'm sure other people here will have more specific advice.

Thank you for your swift response.

For the addendum, what do people actually write about? I really have no other explanations other than the fact that I just had horrible work ethics and never went to classes.

As far as LSAT goes, I will think about that advice and possibly take summer off to study for October LSAT.

[Danteshek]

You're most likely looking at a lower T2 or T3 school.

[Nova]

Apply across the board to T1 and T2 and you will hit a lot more than you will miss. Midwest T30 splitter friendly schools like WUSTL and UMN are good bets.

For T14, Throw apps to atleast UVA and Gtown. If you are Cali or bust, then UCLA and USC are possible but not likely. UCD/I/H are probably the most reasonable possibilities for your situation.

Have your current boss write you a reference. LORs wont make or break you, so dont worry too much.

[Nova]

You're most likely looking at a lower T2 or T3 school.

lol. No.

I'm just going off other things I've read on this site, I didn't need to write one. Obviously, you don't have a "my mother died freshmen year and it fucked me up excuse." Yours was more maturity related. I would honestly forum search and find some similar scenarios. You could say that your grades aren't reflective of your current maturity as much as your LSAT score. Show that you committed to studying that and did very well and that will extend into law school.

Just write about the upward trend you probably have during the junior and senior year. Less than 1 page.

[Danteshek]

UCLA and USC are possible but not likely. UCD/I/H are probably the most reasonable possibilities for your situation.

Have your current boss write you a reference. LORs wont make or break you, so dont worry too much.

I can tell you with a pretty high degree of certainty that he would not be admitted to Loyola. If you think he has any shot whatsoever at getting into UCLA you're on crack.

[catholicgirl]

UCLA and USC are possible but not likely. UCD/I/H are probably the most reasonable possibilities for your situation.

Have your current boss write you a reference. LORs wont make or break you, so dont worry too much.

I can tell you with a pretty high degree of certainty that he would not be admitted to Loyola. If you think he has any shot whatsoever at getting into UCLA you're on crack.

I don't think he has a great shot. But there have been rumblings that applications to schools are going to start falling across the board. He might actually be able to get some unexpected acceptances to some schools in the T-40 who would salivate for that LSAT score.

[Danteshek]

UCLA and USC are possible but not likely. UCD/I/H are probably the most reasonable possibilities for your situation.

Have your current boss write you a reference. LORs wont make or break you, so dont worry too much.

I can tell you with a pretty high degree of certainty that he would not be admitted to Loyola. If you think he has any shot whatsoever at getting into UCLA you're on crack.

I don't think he has a great shot. But there have been rumblings that applications to schools are going to start falling across the board. He might actually be able to get some unexpected acceptances to some schools in the T-40 who would salivate for that LSAT score.

Not California schools.

[dowu]

[Systematic1]

I can tell you with a pretty high degree of certainty that he would not be admitted to Loyola. If you think he has any shot whatsoever at getting into UCLA you're on crack.

+1.

[Nova]

UCLA and USC are possible but not likely. UCD/I/H are probably the most reasonable possibilities for your situation.

Have your current boss write you a reference. LORs wont make or break you, so dont worry too much.

I can tell you with a pretty high degree of certainty that he would not be admitted to Loyola. If you think he has any shot whatsoever at getting into UCLA you're on crack.

I admit my choice of words were overly optimistic. I still think it is "possible". I could possibly become president. Not likely though. Ya no? Basically, I'm saying dont count on it, and you are saying dont even think about it. Fair enough.

If you think OP is destined to TT or TTT, then you are on crack.

True, 2.0 is really bad. However, OP is beating the LSAT 75th percentile everywhere outside YSH CCN.

OP, splitters are really unpredictable, so your best best is to apply to several schools you would be interested going to. Make sure that you would be ok starting your career there if it is out side Cali.

[eggshell03]

Thank you everyone for your responses so far!

I truly appreciate them.

One extra question I had was how likely is it that I would be able to move back to California to practice(I wish to work as a Public Defender if possible) after practicing

around say..3-4 years in a different state?

[Nova]

One extra question I had was how likely is it that I would be able to move back to California to practice(I wish to work as a Public Defender if possible) after practicing

around say..3-4 years in a different state?

Very admirable career path. As a 0L, I can only express what TLS has expressed to me about the same question. My sitch is leaving Texas for T20 but would prefer to practice in Texas. Most people here have said this is not a good idea. Basically the sentiment is if it isnt T14 or you dont have a job lined up, dont move somewhere random if you really want to be back home. But the way everything played out, I was choosing between T20 with $$ vs non UT Texas schools with less money. So, Im moving 1,000 miles away with hopes of having the option to one day return. Who knows if it will work out though.

If we assume that you finish above the median at a T1 and nab a PD job where you graduate, then you surely have a chance to lateral back to Cali. It wont be easy though, and you wont be able to be picky.

[bankruptedcasino]

I can speak with some authority on this because I'm from California and I, too, was an extreme splitter when I applied two years ago.

First things first, and not to burst your bubble, but the top California schools and all the UC's will be out of your reach. Not even UC Davis or UC Irvine will bite. They place a huge emphasis on GPA.

That brings some of the other schools: Pepperdine, Loyola, USD. One of the previous posters said that you won't get in to Loyola. I'll trust him on that one because I don't know much about LLS.

Your best bet would be to write a killer addendum explaining your GPA. I, personally, had a lot of life issues to deal with that took time away from my studies (passing of family members, home invasion robbery, etc.).

As for the LOR situation, you need to get LORs from people who have supervised your recent work product. Employers, supervisors, etc. I would not go for a TA LOR from a class I got a B in. In fact, I did NOT have a single academic LOR in my applications. Nobody at the school would remember me, and, besides, I was killing it in financial sales and my bosses could all testify that I worked very hard, was incredibly responsible, etc. That's what you'd want. An employer who says that you're a hard worker and responsible.

Now for some more bad news (sorry). My LSAT wasn't as good as yours, but my GPA was a little better. I was 0 for 6 in California. No school took me. I am now in a different state, and may possibly have to stay here because there are no jobs in California for young lawyers. It sucks, but I knew the risks.

If you end up going to Pepperdine, LLS, or USD, please for the love of all that is holy DO NOT TAKE ON MORE THAN $75K IN DEBT. You will be unable to find a well-paying, legal job in California to assist you in paying off those loans unless you are at the very, very top of your class. While your LSAT certainly indicates that is a distinct possibility for you (esp. at Pepperdine/USD), you cannot bank on it.

TL;DR? Pepperdine, USD, (unlikely) Loyola. Only go if you can graduate with less than $75K in debt. California's legal market sucks. Avoid TJSL, Whittier, GGU, Western State at all costs. Chapman only if you can go completely for free, as in, not a dollar of debt.

[blsingindisguise]

I'd apply to a wide range of schools in the 26-100 range, and take the best school that offers you a lot of money. And if you don't get a lot of money, don't attend.

[Kabuo]

Just wanted to say that retaking is a complete waste of time. Once you're at that level with a deal breaking GPA, minor or even significant increases in your LSAT don't give them any more info than they already had (that you're a smart person who didn't give a shit in college). Some schools will simply not touch a 2.0. A 180 won't change that.

PD doesn't require as great of a school as biglaw. It's more about showing commitment to it by doing internships related to it. Wherever you go, don't take out too much debt, and make it clear through your resume that PD is the job for you.

[bankruptedcasino]

Just wanted to say that retaking is a complete waste of time. Once you're at that level with a deal breaking GPA, minor or even significant increases in your LSAT don't give them any more info than they already had (that you're a smart person who didn't give a shit in college). Some schools will simply not touch a 2.0. A 180 won't change that.

PD doesn't require as great of a school as biglaw. It's more about showing commitment to it by doing internships related to it. Wherever you go, don't take out too much debt, and make it clear through your resume that PD is the job for you.

Definitely agree, except that OP wants to be a PD in California. Almost every county in California is in the red and they've been on hiring freezes since '08. It's noble to want to be a PD, but that option may not be available in California for the OP. Most PD's don't leave the job. PD's in LA county make $75k after passing the bar, and can make high five figures in a few years. It's a cush job.

[ConfidenceMan2]

From the (pretty limited) data on LSN from the last few years, it looks like the best outcome with that low of a GPA is T25 Midwestern schools with some (not incredible) money.

Mind you, not everyone with your stats hit the Midwestern T25's with money.

This is a tough situation. You're not very likely to have a great cycle. I think you need to send out an enormously large number of apps, and like others have said, follow the money. Might as well ED UVA -> G'Town, though I doubt it will work.

The only thing you can do now: write an absolutely killer and compelling personal statement. This is crucial; make yourself more interesting than only your LSAT score. There are bound to be a few eyebrows raised by your great score, enough to bait them in a little bit. Make yourself sound compelling, and send out a shit-ton of apps. Best of luck to you.

TL;DR you won't get into a Cali school worth going to; apply (almost) everywhere else.

[2014]

I considered my chances at USC/UCLA worse than 50/50 with 175/3.3, the idea of them keeping a 172/2.0 in the pile for more than 3 days is laughable.

OP somewhere in the top 50 (meaningless cutoff but w/e) will take you, but ultimately to go somewhere at a cost that makes it not an idiotic move you are going to be forced to end up at a T2-T4 school like others have said. Best of luck killing it.

[nelaw2010]

Best bet:

1) Retake -> the closer you get to 180, the better.

2) Apply to a lot of schools

3) Visit the schools, let them see you, show interest.
- I think one of the schools I got into was b/c of how much interest I showed, and I dressed professionally every time I visited.

I think GPA might not hurt you as much. With the absurd amount of GPA inflation going on these days, a great LSAT like yours goes a long way. At the same time, given the grade inflation, it's a red flag that your GPA is so low.

Was there something going on? Were you sick, family drama, anything?

I know my advice regarding #3 might seem unrealistic, but I think it helped me get into one of my top choices.

Good luck!!!!

[Kabuo]

Best bet:

1) Retake -> the closer you get to 180, the better.

Retaking will make no difference even if you go 175+, and it will be a huge time sink.

[jkpolk]

Hey guys!

I graduated from UG last year with pitiful 2.0 LSAC gpa. I failed almost every single class my first two years of college and I did not know

not passing "Pass or No Pass" classes counted as a F...I think I have about five of those.

After graduating, I was fortunate enough to get a full time job as a file organizer/secretary at my acquaintance's medical office.

While working, I studied my ass off for about a year and got 172 on LSAT.

Another thing to note is that I have only one academic LOR from undergrad written by a TA, but I assume it is not that great considering my grade in the class was only a B.

My question is, is there any T1/T2 school that would accept me? I am from California and would like to stay here, but I understand that most CA schools are out of my reach.

Also, what should I do about LOR situation? I am not sure if any professor from UG would remember me or even recommend me due to my lackluster performance.

Thank you so much for reading guys and I look forward to your inputs!

I'd petition to get some of those fails taken off the record, or changed to withdraw. Talk to professors/deans/registrar, explain your goals, etc etc. Even if you could get your gpa up to like 2.25 or 2.5 from removing 1 or 2 F's, I think that would be significant.

[Samara]

Best bet:

1) Retake -> the closer you get to 180, the better.

Retaking will make no difference even if you go 175+, and it will be a huge time sink.

This. Don't retake. OP will be well above the 75th for any school that would take a 2.0.

Seriously, all you people who said retake, learn how medians work.