. Forum
-
- Posts: 255
- Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:52 pm
- 5ky
- Posts: 10835
- Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:10 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
It's better than just doing debate, but not significantly so. Don't count on it changing any decisions.
-
- Posts: 1500
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
I suspect that it will mean more if you end up (due to your LSAT) looking in the TTT/TTTT range than if you're looking at tier 1 schools. A lot of TTTs have really great moot court / trial ad programs, and they're often the pride of the school.
-
- Posts: 255
- Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:52 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
.
Last edited by FinallyGoing on Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 94
- Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:53 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
Sadly I think this will matter very little. It's an impressive accomplishment, but without the numbers it's going to be really tough to sway any of the top law schools. I'm sure it will be a helpful factor for whatever schools are in your numerical range, but it's probably not going to help you punch above your weight. If you don't mind me asking, was it the LSAT or the GPA that is holding you back? It seems like a lot of debate skills would translate well to law school and it must take a lot of dedication to get to that level, so it's sort of surprising that you don't have the whole package together here.
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
- emkay625
- Posts: 1988
- Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:31 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
I have one from high school and college (ie though, not debate). I don't think it will help my cycle at all. So far it hasn't. We'll see.
-
- Posts: 255
- Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:52 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
.
Last edited by FinallyGoing on Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- kulshan
- Posts: 413
- Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:59 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
I played up my second place finish a bit on the app, no idea whether it helped much, though. Presumably we know each other IRL. PM me if you want.
-
- Posts: 885
- Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:21 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
That would be something very interesting to discuss with legal employers, and may be a significant boost if you want to do litigation.
However, schools just don't care about anything but the numbers.
However, schools just don't care about anything but the numbers.
-
- Posts: 1115
- Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:44 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
It's a good soft...but like others sad..sadly, it won't help THAT much. Law school really is a numbers game
- dr123
- Posts: 3497
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:38 am
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
You put stuff from HS on your resume?emkay625 wrote:I have one from high school and college (ie though, not debate). I don't think it will help my cycle at all. So far it hasn't. We'll see.
-
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:07 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
In my experience applying to law school circa 2009 -- it is not at all helpful. I had this factor going for me and I did not get in at any school I considered a reach for my GPA/LSAT. Also, I remember being told it was not a good choice for personal statement because it would be super predictable.
As an aside, some success at debate is a pretty good indicator of success in law school. To be fair, I think this is mostly because top level debaters tend to be very competitive and this makes them natural gunners. In my experience with law firm interviews, debate is (relatively) interesting to discuss and I think lead to a couple of callbacks I might not have gotten without it. Very successful former debaters and IEers are usually standouts at moot court. And I can say with confidence, my involvement in debate/IEs likely got me the job I'll start in the fall.
In sum, debate is helpful at nearly everything except actually getting you into school.
As an aside, some success at debate is a pretty good indicator of success in law school. To be fair, I think this is mostly because top level debaters tend to be very competitive and this makes them natural gunners. In my experience with law firm interviews, debate is (relatively) interesting to discuss and I think lead to a couple of callbacks I might not have gotten without it. Very successful former debaters and IEers are usually standouts at moot court. And I can say with confidence, my involvement in debate/IEs likely got me the job I'll start in the fall.
In sum, debate is helpful at nearly everything except actually getting you into school.
- emkay625
- Posts: 1988
- Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:31 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
nope just college. to be fair though, it is like only one line as i have a lot of work experience. it's in an lor though.emkay625 wrote:I have one from high school and college (ie though, not debate). I don't think it will help my cycle at all. So far it hasn't. We'll see.
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 590
- Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:41 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
I think people misunderstand soft factors most of the time. What I've been lead to believe is that they generally won't help you get into a school that your numbers won't, but that many of the elite schools have options when putting their classes together. In order words, students with good enough numbers get rejected all of the time (and this becomes truer the higher in the rankings you go) and softs are simply those factors which help them choose from within that pool.
- patrickd139
- Posts: 2883
- Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:53 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
If it were policy, then it'd be a significant soft. But parli? Does anyone still even debate that way anymore?
-
- Posts: 255
- Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:52 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
.
Last edited by FinallyGoing on Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:07 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
LOL - no.FinallyGoing wrote:I would argue that parli debate is a much more intellectually rigorous form of debate than policy insofar as the keys to success in parli call upon a much for dynamic set of intellectual abilities than do policy.patrickd139 wrote:If it were policy, then it'd be a significant soft. But parli? Does anyone still even debate that way anymore?

Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login
- patrickd139
- Posts: 2883
- Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:53 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
I was just trolling you. Winning nationals at anything is a pretty big deal.FinallyGoing wrote:I would argue that parli debate is a much more intellectually rigorous form of debate than policy insofar as the keys to success in parli call upon a much for dynamic set of intellectual abilities than do policy.patrickd139 wrote:If it were policy, then it'd be a significant soft. But parli? Does anyone still even debate that way anymore?
That said, it's not an exceptional soft. Two of the three 'national debate champions' at my school didn't even break to the out rounds of my 1L moot court competition.
- Smumps
- Posts: 332
- Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:37 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
As someone that did policy in High School and was Parli natl champ runner up, no. Just no.FinallyGoing wrote:I would argue that parli debate is a much more intellectually rigorous form of debate than policy insofar as the keys to success in parli call upon a much for dynamic set of intellectual abilities than do policy.patrickd139 wrote:If it were policy, then it'd be a significant soft. But parli? Does anyone still even debate that way anymore?
On topic - it will not help much. I was also advised not to do my PS on it, and I think it was sound advice. It's one (short) line on my resume and that's it.
-
- Posts: 255
- Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:52 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
.
Last edited by FinallyGoing on Mon May 07, 2012 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Gizmo
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:24 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
Politics DAs must have been stupid(er) as fuck for the last 2 years. What a silly activity.FinallyGoing wrote:brb arguing the same topic for months.
Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.
Register now, it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
- Smumps
- Posts: 332
- Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:37 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
Probably don't want to derail your own thread. But if you care, I think depth >breadth. I also think doing actual, substantive research is important. Only one of us has done both. And both are good activities. Good luck with your applications.FinallyGoing wrote:brb arguing the same topic for months.
-
- Posts: 255
- Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:52 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
Don't strawman Parli. The best (ahem) Parli debaters do quite a bit of research.Smumps wrote:Probably don't want to derail your own thread. But if you care, I think depth >breadth. I also think doing actual, substantive research is important. Only one of us has done both. And both are good activities. Good luck with your applications.FinallyGoing wrote:brb arguing the same topic for months.
- mountaintime
- Posts: 222
- Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:38 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
+1 LSAT point
- Smumps
- Posts: 332
- Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:37 pm
Re: National Debate Champion; weight as a soft?
No, they don't. The "research" you speak of is either a good amount of reading, or cannibalizing policy files into Parli format. The average high school policy debater will put in more time on one file than the best Parli debater will do in a month, maybe more. I will repeat that it's a great activity, but why those that do it feel the need to justify how intellectually rigorous it is is beyond me.FinallyGoing wrote:Don't strawman Parli. The best (ahem) Parli debaters do quite a bit of research.Smumps wrote:Probably don't want to derail your own thread. But if you care, I think depth >breadth. I also think doing actual, substantive research is important. Only one of us has done both. And both are good activities. Good luck with your applications.FinallyGoing wrote:brb arguing the same topic for months.
And agree with poster above, +1 LSAT!
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login