. Forum

[Syme]

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[Nelson]

Seems like you guys know the drill.

I just got a 176 and have a 3.72 from a large midwestern state University. I am also a Truman Scholar, currently have a great job at a prestigious federal agency and Cuban.

Assuming I get my applications in by January 20th, what would you reckon my chances for admission and scholarship offers are from:

Harvard
Stanford
Duke
UVA
Georgetown

Many thanks for your input!

Enjoy one of HYS.

[LawSchoolChampion]

In at all? Really?

EDIT:

For someone so bright this conclusion should have been fairly easy to come to by yourself.

[sanguar]

Apply to Yale, too.

[Syme]

Perhaps it is just a function of neurotic self-doubt, but I am surprised by the confidence.

Just to add another detail that I should have mentioned in my original post:

During the the fall semester of my junior year I took an Honors Formal Logic course. I got As on my first two tests and did well on the coursework, but received a zero on my final exam because I got sick as the test was starting and walked out. After that implosion, my final grade in the course was a C-. Given the close curricular relationship between a logic course and law school, what effect, if any, will this particular grade have on my chances?

Other than my slightly low GPA and the above grade, I am also concerned by the lateness of my application in this cycle. Are you really confident in my chances given the date?

Additionally, any insight on possible financial offers for the schools I listed given my profile would be greatly appreciated.

[freestallion]

I don't think one course will have much of an impact; they'll look more at your overall GPA I'm sure.

I'm not quite as confident as the above poster. If you look at http://harvard.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats -- it seems they have only accepted people with 177+ if they have around a 3.7 GPA.

Yale and Stanford are possibilities, but also not sure things because your GPA is slightly low for them. Stanford, especially, seems to like 3.9+ GPAs. Yale is just hard to predict for anyone.

I don't think you are a shoo in at any of HYS, but they are possibilities, and your strong softs could put you over the edge. On the other hand, the late application might hurt you slightly.

However, you're in at CCN on down.

[Nelson]

Perhaps it is just a function of neurotic self-doubt, but I am surprised by the confidence.

Just to add another detail that I should have mentioned in my original post:

During the the fall semester of my junior year I took an Honors Formal Logic course. I got As on my first two tests and did well on the coursework, but received a zero on my final exam because I got sick as the test was starting and walked out. After that implosion, my final grade in the course was a C-. Given the close curricular relationship between a logic course and law school, what effect, if any, will this particular grade have on my chances?

Other than my slightly low GPA and the above grade, I am also concerned by the lateness of my application in this cycle. Are you really confident in my chances given the date?

Additionally, any insight on possible financial offers for the schools I listed given my profile would be greatly appreciated.

You should relax. Even without the great softs, just your numbers would give you an excellent shot at Harvard. With the softs, I would say Stanford and Yale are a decent possibility. Applying late hurts your chances slightly but not significantly anywhere besides Chicago (maybe Stanford? I'm not familiar with their process as much).

Late in the cycle probably hurts you since most on the money side. Many of the big named scholarships are off the table. Given your current situation, why not reapply early next cycle? You would certainly get big money from MVP and you would have a good shot at the RTK at NYU.

If you do get shut out of HYS this cycle, definitely reapply next.

[sanguar]

URM 1/4 MA:
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/jravae

URM AA (bigger bump than you would get):
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/unc0mm0n1

While they are GPA-sluts, you may get over the hump with the URM status.

[thederangedwang]

I say you get at least 1 of HYS. With 2/3 more likely.

[caminante]

I'm not sure how much of a boost being Cuban gives you, but I think if it does give you any boost at all you are going to be set with HYS (yes I think you should apply to Yale). I think softs are a bit under-valued on this site, maybe because there are so many undergrad students who post here. The fact that you are a URM Truman scholar with a 176, in my opinion, more than overrides the lower GPA.

In other words, if it were up to me you'd be in... but it's not! So good luck, be positive, I think you'll do well!

[Nelson]

I think softs are a bit under-valued on this site, maybe because there are so many undergrad students who post here. The fact that you are a URM Truman scholar with a 176, in my opinion, more than overrides the lower GPA.

I don't think this site undervalues softs as much as it disabuses people who think average WE or being president of their undergrad debate club constitute strong softs. Being a Truman scholar is a strong soft and will definitely help you get into HYS.

[thederangedwang]

I'm not sure how much of a boost being Cuban gives you, but I think if it does give you any boost at all you are going to be set with HYS (yes I think you should apply to Yale). I think softs are a bit under-valued on this site, maybe because there are so many undergrad students who post here. The fact that you are a URM Truman scholar with a 176, in my opinion, more than overrides the lower GPA.

In other words, if it were up to me you'd be in... but it's not! So good luck, be positive, I think you'll do well!

+1

[Syme]

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[Nelson]

Hate to resurrect this thread, but felt compelled.

I am waiting for my last LOR to be processed by LSAC and then I will be able to submit my applications. In my OP, I specifically qualified that any estimation of my chances should be made with a hypothetical January 20th submission. If I am lucky, it looks like I will be able to submit a little sooner, perhaps as early as the 16th.

I'm returning to this conversation because I have, as we all do, been reading a variety of "What are my chances?" threads on this forum. Everyone has been incredibly pessimistic about submissions that come in late December, let alone mid January. In fact, the substance of thederangedwang's posts in a few other posts I've come across seems to suggest that applying at this point in the cycle has a substantial negative impact on chances of admission, more negative than I had even initially imagined.

Help me read the tea leaves. Tell me why I received such positive feedback in this thread about my chances of admission given the lateness of my application relative to the general advice that others have received about how harmful late apps can be.

As a small update to my profile, the GPA that I listed in my OP was my UGPA (3.723). Now that LSAC has processed my transcript, my cum is showing as 3.75.

As always, many thanks for the insight.

Don't worry about it. Nothing you can do about it now right? If you find yourself shut out of schools and think you underperformed your numbers, then you wait out this year and reapply next cycle.

[caminante]

Spend some time on Law School numbers looking only at URMs applying to the schools you're interested in. I think this will help you feel better about your chances.

As an example, I looked at Harvard's URM applicants from last year and found three people who submitted late in the game who had somewhat similar numbers. All three of them were accepted.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/dkt4
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/CXOrmachea
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/jravae

In addition to having great numbers and URM status, you have the incredible soft of being a Truman scholar.

You really have no reason to worry or rely on speculation from this forum. Despite submitting late, you are in an enviable position.

[20130312]

I don't know how we made it this far in the thread without someone pointing out this fact, but you are not a URM. Cuban doesn't give you URM status. Only African American, Mexican American, Native American, or Puerto Rican does.

[bk1]

Cuban isn't URM. You might still get a boost for it though but it will not be as guaranteed and likely won't be as large.

[Grizz]

Enjoy lawschoolnumbers.com

[anela00]

Just curious, why isn't Cuban considered URM? That seems odd to me.

[bk1]

Just curious, why isn't Cuban considered URM? That seems odd to me.

Because law schools say so.

[20121109]

I don't know how we made it this far in the thread without someone pointing out this fact, but you are not a URM. Cuban doesn't give you URM status. Only African American, Mexican American, Native American, or Puerto Rican does.

This.

You might still get a boost for it though but it will not be as guaranteed and likely won't be as large.

And this.