3.55/170, Relaistic Options and Realistic $$$ Forum

[dsn32]

Junior in UG who will be applying next cycle. ED won't be an option due to $$$. White male, so obviously no admissions bump there either. Overall, I'd say I very well may have peaked taking the LSAT my first time, as I never reached 170 PT'ing, although I did hit 169 in my two PTs before the real thing. Not 100% opposed to a retake, but I don't see a reply reading "RETAKE" as constructive or informative at all, let me know why.

I'd ideally like to end up at one of the reaches or a target with $$$, not so sure that is possible/probable. Any additions/exclusions from those lists? Any safeties that wouldn't be worth my time/ones I should add in order to maximize $$$ while still maintaining reasonable employment opportunities?

So far my list goes as follows:

Reaches: Stanford (uber-reach), Penn, Michigan, Boalt, Virginia, Duke, Northwestern

Targets: Cornell, GULC, Vandy, Texas, UCLA, USC

Safeties/Hopeful for $$$: Minnesota, BU, BC, Emory, Indiana, UNC, UWashington, Georgia, Wisco, Wake, ASU, Arizona, Colorado

Constructive, honest input would be appreciated. Thanks TLS, you've helped a ton thus far!

[Tom Joad]

It seems to me like you have it pretty well figured out, my friend. Get all A+s the rest of the way out and things may change.

[bobbyh1919]

Really looks like you're emphasizing the rankings based on that list. They're fine for what they are, but just be careful about looking into schools, thinking about where you want to practice, etc. You seem to be targeting schools for the sole fact that they're ranked in the 20's and that's probably not the best way to go about it.

Seems like you've reasonably assessed your chances though. Best of luck with everything.

[bobbyh1919]

And wait you took the LSAT as a junior? I had no idea people did this lol.

[Ernert]

And wait you took the LSAT as a junior? I had no idea people did this lol.

Some people from my UG did so they could pull off a K-JD and still have a chance to retake without hurting their cycle. Seems reasonably smart if you have an aversion to taking time off.

[dsn32]

Really looks like you're emphasizing the rankings based on that list. They're fine for what they are, but just be careful about looking into schools, thinking about where you want to practice, etc. You seem to be targeting schools for the sole fact that they're ranked in the 20's and that's probably not the best way to go about it.

Seems like you've reasonably assessed your chances though. Best of luck with everything.

Tried my best to dip into the 30's and 40's, knowing that after T-14 and to a point UT/Vandy/UCLA/USC, 20-60 can be very similar depending on regional preference. Am I not considering schools that I possibly should be (i.e.: Schools lower than ASU/Ariz./Colorado in the rankings)?

And yeah, I took the LSAT at the beginning of my Junior year to give myself the option of a retake, plus I needed to know if I'd need to take time off of work to study (the only reasonable window I had to put in the proper time was June-August, I had to make due in September). With doing reasonably well, I can just enjoy Junior/Senior years and hopefully kick out a ton of applications this summer while I study abroad/intern somewhere.

[CanadianWolf]

Have you calculated the highest possible overall GPA that you can achieve from this point ?

[CanadianWolf]

Noticed that you do not have WashUStL on your list of safeties. Seems like WashUStL would be both an admission & a financial safety, although the employment prospects beyond the Midwest are bleak. (And the employment prospects in the Midwest aren't that great since Chicago has Northwestern, Chicago, Michigan, Illinois & Notre Dame ahead of WashUStL.)

[bobbyh1919]

The list looks fine to me. Instead of a retake, I would focus my efforts on trying to bring that GPA up to the 3.6-3.65 range. That will make a world of difference at schools like Cornell and especially Texas.

[Tom Joad]

Noticed that you do not have WashUStL on your list of safeties. Seems like WashUStL would be both an admission & a financial safety, although the employment prospects beyond the Midwest are bleak. (And the employment prospects in the Midwest aren't that great since Chicago has Northwestern, Chicago, Michigan, Illinois & Notre Dame ahead of WashUStL.)

Hey now. Let's be real. Notre Dame above WUSTL in Chicago?

[CanadianWolf]

It's hard to discuss your safeties listed or to recommend others since it is unclear where you want to live & work after law school.
UCal-Berkeley, Stanford & Northwestern are unlikely, in my opinion, based solely on your info. shared in this thread.

[CanadianWolf]

@TomJoad: NLJ250 placement for the class of 2010 had Notre Dame placing 23.84% while WashUStL only placed 18.96%.

P.S. It would be interesting to know both law schools' Article III Clerkship placements to see whether the gap narrows or widens.

[bobbyh1919]

Yeah, Stanford and Northwestern are almost certain rejections. However, if you get a fee waiver from NW or feel like you don't mind spending $100 to take at shot at Stanford, go for it and hope they see something in you that allows them to overlook the stats.

[baller]

Another thing you may consider since you said $$$ is a serious concern. Is an ED program which comes with a full ride if accepted. BU or GW both have them. I think GW's program would be a reach but BU might be doable, it just started this year so there is no info on how many people they are accepting through it yet.

[Hopefully2012]

Cut down your safety list and add WUSTL.

Northwestern is only doable if you work (full-time) for at least a year between UG and law school. Otherwise, I wouldn't waste the app.

I have very similar numbers so good luck!!

[grimfan]

I have your EXACT stats, and I'm not an URM either.

I'm in the middle of the cycle right now, and so far, I'm 3/3 with acceptances to Georgetown, Duke, and Michigan. Obviously don't know about scholarship offers to those schools yet.

I didn't have any super-special LoRs or work experience, but I did work very hard on my PS and wrote Why essays to all places that would accept them. I wrote Diversity Statements to all schools as well.

The lowest-rank school that I applied to was Georgetown. Based on what I've seen so far among my stat peers on LSN, you'll definitely at least get into Georgetown. I wouldn't apply to so many non-T14s if I were you.

LSP had me at a flat-out Deny at Duke, yet I was accepted early. I can only assume that my essays helped because my stats are borderline.

Hope this helps!

[dsn32]

Very helpful! These are three of my top choices, and I plan on having my apps in the first day they accept them, as I'll be working on PS, Why X Essays, and Diversity Statements all summer. Any other helpful hints in regards to these apps.

In regards to Northwestern, I have a near full time job during UG that I believe is representative of professional experience, and I plan to try and spin it that way to them. Obviously with full disclosure and honesty about the job and it's requirements, but I do believe it counts as valid WE.

As for schools like WUSTL and others not on my safety list, its more of a fit/regional issue as to why I'm not considering them. I'd be apprehensive to attend some schools in the 20-40 range due to those factors.

I have your EXACT stats, and I'm not an URM either.

I'm in the middle of the cycle right now, and so far, I'm 3/3 with acceptances to Georgetown, Duke, and Michigan. Obviously don't know about scholarship offers to those schools yet.

I didn't have any super-special LoRs or work experience, but I did work very hard on my PS and wrote Why essays to all places that would accept them. I wrote Diversity Statements to all schools as well.

The lowest-rank school that I applied to was Georgetown. Based on what I've seen so far among my stat peers on LSN, you'll definitely at least get into Georgetown. I wouldn't apply to so many non-T14s if I were you.

LSP had me at a flat-out Deny at Duke, yet I was accepted early. I can only assume that my essays helped because my stats are borderline.

Hope this helps!

[dsn32]

Also a fee waiver at Northwestern, so why not.

[thelaststraw05]

Last year I applied with a 3.45/171 and got into Michigan with $15k. I applied right around this time last year. It can happen.

[Ernert]

Very close numbers to you as well and in the middle of my cycle currently. In at Duke, Cornell, Michigan, UCLA, Vandy. Definitely seems like you have a good shot at many of the schools on your list!

[dsn32]

Last year I applied with a 3.45/171 and got into Michigan with $15k. I applied right around this time last year. It can happen.

This would be ideal, ideal. I'm a Michigan man at heart haha.

Very close numbers to you as well and in the middle of my cycle currently. In at Duke, Cornell, Michigan, UCLA, Vandy. Definitely seems like you have a good shot at many of the schools on your list!

Very encouraging! Anything special either of you did (outside of taking your time with apps, Ps, Why X's)?

[BiglawOrBust]

Your GPA is bad. Retake college for better prospects.

[thelaststraw05]

Your GPA is bad. Retake college for better prospects.

-1

This guys an asshole.

[VictoryGin]

Your GPA is bad. Retake college for better prospects.

-1

This guys an asshole.

[BiglawOrBust]

Your GPA is bad. Retake college for better prospects.

-1

This guys an asshole.

What? People are told to retake the LSAT ad naseum, but it's not appropriate to tell someone to step up their game in undergrad?