. Forum

[djwjddl]

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[soj]

I don't see you getting into Chicago ED since you're below both medians. Check out LSN, keeping in mind Chicago's GPA median rose quite a bit this year.

EDIT: turns out you're below both medians at Penn, too. (though you're super close!) Consider retaking to improve your chances at both.

[anewaphorist]

Eh, I'll disagree with soj. I think you have a good chance, and this is coming from a fellow UChicago EDer. Yes, you're below the GPA median, but you went to an Ivy, so I feel like the adcom would at least give your GPA the same consideration they give a 3.9. That puts you at/above their GPA median. Your LSAT is below their LSAT median but above their 25th percentile. So, that said, you would not be disqualified on the basis of your stats alone from the RD pool, let alone the ED one. Factor in the fact that apps are down this year, and I think you have a strong chance.

There was a kid last year (http://lawschoolnumbers.com/beatrock) waitlisted with similar numbers (3.83, 169), but, by his own admission, he had average softs and an average UG. In that same cycle, there was a 3.74/170 that was accepted ED with $ (http://lawschoolnumbers.com/etd20). S/he went to a T5 undergrad. Finally, there was an applicant (3.96/169) from a Georgia state school that was accepted ED with $ (http://lawschoolnumbers.com/wmclennan1). Again, an RD applicant in your shoes would be hard pressed to get accepted, but I would advise against a retake if you're ED. Worst case scenario is a WL and possibly an acceptance later in the cycle.

[JamMasterJ]

Eh, I'll disagree with soj. I think you have a good chance, and this is coming from a fellow UChicago EDer, although my GPA is significantly higher than yours. Yes, you're below the GPA median, but you went to an Ivy, so I feel like the adcom would at least give your GPA the same consideration they give a 3.9. That puts you at/above their GPA median. Your LSAT is below their LSAT median but above their 25th percentile. So, that said, you would not be disqualified on the basis of your stats alone from the RD pool, let alone the ED one. Factor in the fact that apps are down this year, and I think you have a strong chance.

There was a kid last year (http://lawschoolnumbers.com/beatrock) waitlisted with similar numbers (3.83, 169), but, by his own admission, he had average softs and an average UG. In that same cycle, there was a 3.74/170 that was accepted ED with $ (http://lawschoolnumbers.com/etd20). S/he went to a T5 undergrad.

doesn't matter. A lot of the ED boost is for improving a median with someone who is bound to attend. If he's not actually improving the median, he's not benefiting the school in that way. Regardless of how holistic a school tries to be, applicants still really need to be above one of the medians.

[anewaphorist]

How do you explain the 3.74/170 guy (etd20)? His GPA was near the 25th, his LSAT was at the median (possibly below).

[JamMasterJ]

How do you explain the 3.74/170 guy (etd20)? His GPA was near the 25th, his LSAT was at the median (possibly below).

it's below. Good question, IDK. I wasn't saying that O Pwas auto-ding, just that the logic you used to say he had a shot with ED wasn't really accurate

[anewaphorist]

I think your logic applies to the vast majority of undergrads (mine included), but the data is there on LSN to support the assertion that Ivy grads get a slight boost, even at H (see the 169, 4.0s that were accepted last year; nearly all were T10 undergrads).

[JamMasterJ]

I think your logic applies to the vast majority of undergrads (mine included), but the data is there on LSN to support the assertion that Ivy grads get a slight boost, even at H (see all the 169, 4.0s that were accepted last year).

but those people are still ABOVE one median. That's my point

[anewaphorist]

At Harvard, where there's no ED. We're talking ED at Chicago, brah. I used H to support the Ivy-boost hypothesis, because the sample size there is much greater, due in large part to the fact that there is only 1 applicant pool.

[freestallion]

I think your logic applies to the vast majority of undergrads (mine included), but the data is there on LSN to support the assertion that Ivy grads get a slight boost, even at H (see all the 169, 4.0s that were accepted last year).

Do you think non-ivy but top 12ish schools get any boost? (sorry if I'm derailing the thread!)

[JamMasterJ]

PSA: If there is an undergrad institution boost, it doesn't "boost" someone below median to above it. No matter what, at a school with medians of 170 and 3.8, someone from a TTT UG with 168/3.82 is in better shape than someone from an Ivy with 168/3.75. It might make a 171/3.4 look better

[anewaphorist]

It's fine of you to speculate that, but the data is there to support what I've said, about UChicago's policies last year and about Ivy applicants to elite schools (like H) writ large. That's why I provided it

[djwjddl]

thanks so much for all of your responses. is there THAT much difference in penn and chicago for NYC big law job placement assuming you do equally well at both? I'd imagine the edge chicago has in terms of rep/ranking is matched by the fact that penn places very well in NYC?

[anewaphorist]

Both are wonderful schools. 2 spots in the rankings is insignificant. Penn might have a higher percentage of their grads in NYC (it's only 90 minutes away), but Chi grads wouldn't seem to be at a disadvantage compared to those from Penn. More just choose the city of Chicago or the Midwest in general. Some people would have you believe that Chicago grads would still have an edge (because the class size is smaller, and firms want grads from several of the top schools), but take that with a grain of salt.

[MrKappus]

Eh, I'll disagree with soj. I think you have a good chance, and this is coming from a fellow UChicago EDer, although my GPA is significantly higher than yours.

How can anyone's GPA be "significantly" higher than a 3.85?

[anewaphorist]

Uh, insofar as it puts me well above the 75th percentile, it's significantly higher. It's all relative of course to law school admissions. Thanks for a post that does nothing to help the OP or anyone else browsing this thread.

[MrKappus]

Uh, insofar as it puts me well above the 75th percentile, it's significantly higher. It's all relative of course to law school admissions. Thanks for a post that does nothing to help the OP or anyone else browsing this thread.

Ahhhh you're GPA was higher with significance. I see.

[anewaphorist]

Ahhhh you're GPA was higher with significance. I see.

U mad, brah?

[djwjddl]

Given that NYU has a slightly higher 25th percentile LSAT, yet is ranked lower would my chances of EDing there be the same?

[MrKappus]

Ahhhh you're GPA was higher with significance. I see.

U mad, brah?

Totally. Totally mad. You use language really well.

[anewaphorist]

I guess I'll ignore the troll and try to answer your question, OP. Silly, I know; I'll probably regret it. But such is my boredom and willingness to help LS applicants, now that my app work is finished.

NYU has a significantly larger class size, so the ED prospects in that respect might be slightly better. You're still not above either median (I believe your right about at NYU's 50th GPA), so you have to go by which school cares more about your softs (finance work experience?). A higher percentage of UChicago's 1Ls came straight from undergrad, so, judging by that alone, I'd say maybe NYU is a slightly better ED option. But, again, I stress that that difference could be due to self-selection.

Realistically, the ED differences between the 2 schools are too capricious and minute really to tell. You might as well aim as high as you can, because only adcoms can answer your question, and, as far as LSN can predict, NYU is slightly easier on students with your #s who apply RD than is Chi.

[soj]

Given that NYU has a slightly higher 25th percentile LSAT, yet is ranked lower would my chances of EDing there be the same?

Check out lsn, don't rely on lsp. Fyi nyu hates sub-170s from non-urms. Your gpa is above nyu's median, but that'll probably only get you a wl.

[anewaphorist]

Check out lsn, don't rely on lsp.

TITCR. FWIW, an ED applicant with your #s exactly was WLed at NYU and then accepted off the WL later in the cycle (http://lawschoolnumbers.com/403moreprejudicial/jd).

[Flash]

Eh, I'll disagree with soj. I think you have a good chance, and this is coming from a fellow UChicago EDer. Yes, you're below the GPA median, but you went to an Ivy, so I feel like the adcom would at least give your GPA the same consideration they give a 3.9. That puts you at/above their GPA median. Your LSAT is below their LSAT median but above their 25th percentile. So, that said, you would not be disqualified on the basis of your stats alone from the RD pool, let alone the ED one. Factor in the fact that apps are down this year, and I think you have a strong chance.

There was a kid last year (http://lawschoolnumbers.com/beatrock) waitlisted with similar numbers (3.83, 169), but, by his own admission, he had average softs and an average UG. In that same cycle, there was a 3.74/170 that was accepted ED with $ (http://lawschoolnumbers.com/etd20). S/he went to a T5 undergrad. Finally, there was an applicant (3.96/169) from a Georgia state school that was accepted ED with $ (http://lawschoolnumbers.com/wmclennan1). Again, an RD applicant in your shoes would be hard pressed to get accepted, but I would advise against a retake if you're ED. Worst case scenario is a WL and possibly an acceptance later in the cycle.

I can pretty much guarantee when Chicago made ED decisions they were hoping for 3.72 172 medians. When they realized the 172 wasn't happening, they started pulling as many high GPAs as they could off the WL.

[djwjddl]

With my #s if I don't apply ED anywhere, but just early in the application cycle will this be too much of a risk if I'm looking to go to a school ranked no lower than Penn? In other words, if I don't ED anywhere is it highly likely I'll be WL'd and then rejected?