3.21/162 Forum

[Nate895]

So, I took the LSAT in October and got a score of 162. I was planning on applying to Washington and Lee, William and Mary, University of Richmond, and Liberty Law (Liberty's my alma mater, so I really do not care what you think about the place). I looked up all these, and just given my GPA and LSAT, I have little if any chance at W&L and W&M (I have a free app to both, so might as well), a 50-50 shot at Richmond, and I better get accepted with a hefty scholarship at LU. I also might apply to any Mid-Atlantic Tier 3 or higher (LU is the only T4 I'm even glancing at).

However, a couple of things that might change my chance are that my GPA is improving rather significantly right now (I got 3.8 in Spring, 4.0 this past summer for 9 credits, and am looking at somewhere around 3.8 again this fall). I could very well graduate with an overall 3.4 (w/3.9 over my last 38 credits, which is possible). Secondly, I'll only be 19 when I get my Bachelor's (if this counts for anything, I have no idea). Thirdly, I was pretty shocked by my LSAT score, considering I totally bombed the reading comp section when that is usually my strong suit. If I would have performed where I usually do on that section, then I would have gotten 168-170, which is what I was averaging in my practice scores (aside from a couple of outlier upper 170 scores).

I am wondering a few things:
What are my shots as is?
Would I significantly improve my chances if I retook the LSAT and got around where I was practicing at?
What odds would I have if I took the best place that will take me, perform well during my 1L and attempted a transfer, possibly to UVA or another T14/T1? Perhaps retake the LSAT as well in this scenario?

[law4vus]

I am wondering a few things:
What are my shots as is?
Would I significantly improve my chances if I retook the LSAT and got around where I was practicing at?
What odds would I have if I took the best place that will take me, perform well during my 1L and attempted a transfer, possibly to UVA or another T14/T1? Perhaps retake the LSAT as well in this scenario?

1) Not that great. No school that will accept you with those numbers will be worth going to at sticker and you won't get much scholarship money from anywhere worth going to either.

2) Uh, yeah. If you score between 168 and 170, it's the difference between going to a bottom level Tier 1-high Tier 2 and going to a T20. A 171 or 172 may net you a T14. Considering how well you were practicing, you'd be doing yourself a huge disservice to settle with a 162.

3) Don't make any plans that include transferring. It's not easy and law school's grading is so random and unpredictable that you can never bank on doing well enough to transfer out. Everyone in law school is banking on being in the top 10% and 90% of them will be disappointed. Retaking the LSAT won't help you in a transfer, because that comes down to only 1L grades.

[crumpetsandtea]

Everything law4vus said is credited. You're screwed with your current stats, a retake would help considerably (and by considerably I mean CONSIDERABLY). PLEASE study again and retake. What was your study schedule before? I bet you could improve quite a bit and score in the lower-mid 170s if you busted your ass and waited a cycle.

Please DO NOT shortchange yourself. You're looking at potential acceptances into lower T14 schools or T20 schools with money if you retake and do better. As someone who retook 3 times and increased 8 points, it is completely and totally worth it.

[Nate895]

Thank you for your prompt responses. Looking up the numbers, that seems about right. The calculators have a lot of near zeros, a couple of 50-50's in the bottom tier 1 and top tier two schools, and then a lot of 100%'s at T3 and T4 schools. It just seems like a really awkward number combination. Not quite good enough for the top tier and not quite bad enough to resort to a T3 or T4, and the T2 seems like a waste of money to me.

Also, thanks for the advice about transfer. It does look hard, considering there are only a few accepted even at the biggest law schools, but I was just wondering about a chance at it considering my numbers now, not planning it as a first resort.

As far as next cycle goes, though, I'm definitely looking at next year. If I go next year, I'll be all of 22 when I get out of law school and I can get a nice early start at a legal career. I mean, most people get their Bachelor's at 22, so I'll definitely be ahead of the game.

[tennisking88]

If I go next year, I'll be all of 22 when I get out of law school and I can get a nice early start at a legal career. I mean, most people get their Bachelor's at 22, so I'll definitely be ahead of the game.

This is stupid. You're only "ahead of the game" if you find a job, and going to a shitty school would lower your chances of this. More generally, while it's impressive that you're so ambitious, employers/schools will not give a shit that you're so young. They will mostly care if you have the grades.

[Nate895]

This is stupid. You're only "ahead of the game" if you find a job, and going to a shitty school would lower your chances of this. More generally, while it's impressive that you're so ambitious, employers/schools will not give a shit that you're so young. They will mostly care if you have the grades.

I care about being 22. I have a life I want to get started on.

[c3pO4]

This is stupid. You're only "ahead of the game" if you find a job, and going to a shitty school would lower your chances of this. More generally, while it's impressive that you're so ambitious, employers/schools will not give a shit that you're so young. They will mostly care if you have the grades.

I care about being 22. I have a life I want to get started on.

A life of debt and doc review? Retake or else you are on a fast-track to disappointment.

[tennisking88]

This is stupid. You're only "ahead of the game" if you find a job, and going to a shitty school would lower your chances of this. More generally, while it's impressive that you're so ambitious, employers/schools will not give a shit that you're so young. They will mostly care if you have the grades.

I care about being 22. I have a life I want to get started on.

LOL. Be on your merry way!

[lalala21]

This is stupid. You're only "ahead of the game" if you find a job, and going to a shitty school would lower your chances of this. More generally, while it's impressive that you're so ambitious, employers/schools will not give a shit that you're so young. They will mostly care if you have the grades.

I care about being 22. I have a life I want to get started on.

Are you kidding me - travel the world and just be young while you still can. Trust me, you will regret it if you don't.

[law4vus]

Also, thanks for the advice about transfer. It does look hard, considering there are only a few accepted even at the biggest law schools, but I was just wondering about a chance at it considering my numbers now, not planning it as a first resort.

Your numbers now have zero bearing on your ability to transfer out to a higher ranked school.

As for the age thing, I echo the other posters. Please don't become a miserable lawyer at 22. Do something else for a year or two (something you'll enjoy) and get a higher LSAT score and reapply. Law school will always be there, but take it from someone who wasted a lot of his life in mundane shit - DON'T DO IT!

[Nate895]

Thanks for all the advice. I'll mull it over and make a decision. I'm sure applying with a 3.4/170+ looks a lot better than 3.21/162. Just looking at the LSAC calculator, the options open up quite a bit with a 3.4/170. If I can get really excited about a legal career again, like I once was, I'll do that. If not, I have other options besides law school that are starting to appeal to me more.

[Nate895]

I've got a question that I can't seem to find the answer to on LSN given a low sample size: Are there a lot of schools where 3.5 would look much different from the 3.4 I'd be graduating with this spring/summer? At first glance it wouldn't appear to affect someone's chances very much, but folks on here seem to be fairly knowledgeable on GPA floors, scholarships, etc.

So, basic question: Would a 3.5 open up any doors in the admissions/scholarship arena as opposed to a 3.4?

P.S. I have a reason to ask this, I am just sparing the details.